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A follow up.
Here is an interesting way to look at it. Go to Ebay’s list of companies that participate in the VERO program. There are hundreds on the list. Then think about every item you have in your store that has one of or multiples of those names somewhere in your listing. Then any one or all of those listings “could-may” have the potential to get a VERO if some of those companies find you, see you or get a wild hair about you.
Read down the list one of my links somewhere above and it takes you to a web site that has a long list of some of the companies [but not all] that are on Ebay’s VERO list. This web site has asked people to reply if they have had a VERO sent to them and if so, which companies have sent it to them. Well that list 160 companies long. That is proof that those companies are active with seeking out the use of their name, logo’s and what not. John Deere is certainly on the list, one which got me twice in the past. Think I will ever list anything by John Deere again.
I had a cap with a John Deere patch on it and I had a old metal toy John Deere tracktor, and both got taken down and I got a VERO both times.If we read the list and run “scared” just think how many items we would pass on, not buy or not re-sell. And, in my opinion, that is exactly what these companies want to achieve. It is nothing in their profit picture that has any advantage to allowing us to re-sell anything of their’s that is not new. They don’t get a dime from it. But if they can kill off the re-selling of their items then if you want their brand item, you must go buy new from one of their “authorized” sellers.
again … just personal opinion stuff here. But….???
mikeHey HabNab: The whole point of these companies that are serious over their logo, brand, name and merchandise is this. They don’t want anyone to be re-selling their stuff. They don’t want you to use a photo of their items, mention their name, mention any numbers, don’t say their name, don’t show thier item because they are only interested in the “first sale / Original buyer”. They don’t want their stuff on the secondary market or to be re-sold.
Then from their as the long reply links show if you click, follow and read is what are the rights of the “original buyer” to do what they want with something they have bought and do they have the right to use the English language i.e. words to mention the “brand” in a re-selling listing, show a photo of the item which will include the logo and the item itself.
As eCom says and as John Deere told me in a formal letter from them. I am not an authorized deealer or seller and I have no right to re-sell their items if I mention their name, show thier products or show their logo. In essence they don’t wany anyone whom they haven’t authorized or maybe [probably] have “paid them” for the right to re-sell.
They don’t care about Ebay or it’s success or failure. They don’t care about us as Scavenger’s or Craislist, 5 Mile, pop up small businesses or anything. Just that they don’t want you to say their name, mention their brand, show their product or logo, nothing, nadda. Take the “used” item off the internet and do whatever we want with it but don’t try to resell it. We are not authorized to do so.
So with that said mentioning any numbers, showing the label only, even showing a photo of the item if the see it they will want you to cease and desist.
So where are we left as re-selllers, hoping that the Federal Court and Congress will extend the right to an “original” buyer or in many cases even a second or third buyer the right to shoe, tell, speak, describe and re-sell “used” items on the secondary market.
As most of us do and as eCom and Jay says, we just chalk it up to the fact that out of hundreds of millions of listers we are just unfornutae to have been caught speeding {LOL} and we just slow down, be aware and keep doing what we are doing despite what the VERO companies want. It is not like the Ebay VERO police are staking out our house or we are going to VERO jail. But if we persist and throw it up in their faces we can get ourselves into some Ebay trouble. So as Jay says, just keep on doing what we have all been doing, Ebay supporting VERO keeps Ebay from getting sued and from getting a black eye and bad reputation.
Good luck to all of us, we all need to just keep on truckin!!!
mike
You hit the nail right on the head. I think they didn’t want to get the reputation like Craig’s List and be part of supporting the proliferation of re-selling counterfits and the such. Bad for Ebay’s image and brand and Ebay wants to build buyer trust, especially now a days.
Yep… Just as my long reply goes into and what was included in a few law suits and what I think the Higher Up courts are still working on. What rights does one get when we buy. As an artist, I kow that I my artwork is protected by copy right law and if you buy one of my paintings you can re-sell it or auction it. But I still keep the copy right to it and you can’t reproduce my image, photograph it, make photo copies of it or if I insisted even show it online without my written permission!!! So I guess this is where the rub comes ito play. As an Ebay reseller according to the wierd laws, I can photo, post and sell my own artwork / paintings but am in violation if I photo, post and sell other artists work??? Whaaat!! A real contridiction even I say so myself.
Mike
Hi again.
As eCom. says above. Try to ick your battles and VERO or other use of prohibitive words is a battle we choose not to fight. It is trying to prove Ebay or their policies as wrong and we rather try to side to the good side with Ebay.
I would pull it and not try to dog it. It and that item ID has been flagged in the Ebay system as well as maybe your account. Also it takes numerous violations from another Ebay memebers before Ebay acts on something and if they acted, there may be others who has reported either it or you on this. Pull it and give it some breathing time, then do a complete new lsit with everything new, photos, descript, title, item specifics, condition, all new words and then list. If you want to go to the trouble. We now just dump it and move on.
But just my opinion. It is not like you have a $100 dollar bill invested in it. [at least I hope not??? LOL :-)]
mike
I agree with this whole heartly eCom. You would think a “possible violation” would pop up. Their is a specified field box for Brand. They ask use to put Brand Name in the item specifics area, yet according to my response letter I recieved back from John Deere I was not even authorized to state their brand name, show their logo in any photographs in order to re-sell one of their products for profit or personal gain with being an “authorized reseller”. Which is baloney. But I did as you state. I threw the item into my donate pile and moved on.
But it is an interesting situation as my longer reply and the several links to other site indicate below.
And we have all had to re-do listings just to remove the word “Velcro” from titles and / or descriptions because Velcro is intense on that word just not being included in any listing in any shape or form.
mike
As to even talking with Ebay about the VERO program, personally I think it is a waste of time. They can’t speak for the companies who have signed onto the program and it is the original company who is claiming foul.
If you are going to report to anybody, I would suggest going directly to the company to try to prove it, but that may not even help.When we had a John Deere issue we went straight to John Deere, told them we bought it from a Tractor Retailer in a small farm town. Their response was, so what, if you are not one of our dealers or authorized re-sellers of our brand then no.
That then leads to the question as I put into the long reply below about what rights does one have once you buy something and can we show the logo, state the name as a re-seller and then re-sell something?
Who knows.. Read the links I included in the long reply and see for yourself. Especially what the Feds are saying about it.
mike in atl.
Hi Maggie.. VERO is an interesting program and is mainly an Ebay invention. Ebay has a list of all of the companies that have signed up for and participate in the VERO Program. The main focus from the Manufacturers or the “Brand” franchise is that when we as Ebay sellers try to sell their merchandise we are not authorized resellers. In other words the original point of sale authorized dealers. They seem to not want anybody to “re-sell” their stuff unless we have been approved to do so.
Now also many companies also include into the VERO program the protection against any one selling knocks offs, reproductions of their original items which is all encompassing along with the thought that we are not authorized to sell their brand anyway.
and this link takes you to a private web site where the members list over 160 companies that they have recived VERO notices from and or had their listings removed.
As you read down this list keep in mind that basically what these companies want is #1) don’t sell counterfeit items of our “brand” and #2 Don’t use our name, to sell our original items under your store name even though they are genuine and original, while using our name to do so, since you are not an authorized re-seller. Example: Velcro as we all know is a “hook and loop” invention and many of us have hats and other articles that have “velcro” fasteners and most are probably “original” Velcro material [some may not be], but Velcro just doesn’t want anyone to use their “Brand Name” in their listing in order to “RE_SELL” something. They are worried about it being original velcro or not, because all hook and loop processes do work the same. It is just a matter of don’t use our name.
“Coach” takes both stances, don’t sell knocks off and call them Coach and also don’t use our name to go re-selling our merchandise in your little Ebay, Craigslist or elsewhere.
The point though is as an “original buyer” of one of these items have we also bought the right to re-sell our personal items to anybody or anyway we want without the “original” company getting involved and trying to control us as a re-seller. What rights do we have once we buy an item. We can buy a car and re-sell it and use any and all names in a listing. It is ours and we have a title to it. Would not the same apply to a “Coach” purse?
Here is the link to the current Ebay VERO program. You can read down and see that
unless authorized” we may be in gray area of even showing a logo without being authorized to do so? As Ryanee says.. “WHAAAT”! How can we photograph our items and not show the logo.http://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/listing/create-effective-listings/vero-program.html
So this is where the rub comes in. It all boils down to what rights does one have ounce they buy something from someone else and what rights do you have to re-sell it in any venue, anyway you want as long as you don’t misrepresent it. So someone finally last year took all of this to a higher level. I am unsure of the final out come, but click and read the link below for some of the proceedings. As for me personally I just don’t pay much attention to it and list my items and call a spade a spade. except on those items that I too have personally gotten VERO Notices from. I have gotten VERO’s for several uses of brand names in which the items were original merchandise. In the case of really old vintage items where the companies are out of business then most of us are safe and also items made by companies in foreign countries.
This makes it a very interesting scenario and because the VERO Program is mostly an Ebay Invention to cover their you know what’s, it got taken to court and to Congress.
See this link that talks about Congress, the Federal Law and Ebay and their VERO list of companies and the program. It is two pages and covers several topics and questions about the VERO Program.
Page one:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Listing-of-Brand-Names-on-the-VeRO-List/td-p/25364325
Page two:
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Selling/Listing-of-Brand-Names-on-the-VeRO-List/td-p/25364325/page/2This process of VERO has become such a big deal that BRAND Companies now hire thrid party companies to do nothing but scour the internet to find their names being used in re-sell situation and reporting them. Also on e-Commerce Bytes there is a thread that folows along a re-seller who sued one of the third party companies for infringeing on his rights to re-sell. Unsure if that is what led to the big to do in Congress.
Now the short version to your personal issue.
What we have done is any time we get a VERO, we filter all of our listing by the brand or key word(s) and then edit the listings to try to use another word in it’s place. As for the actual listing taken down, we tried editing one several times and different ways and it got killed very quickly several times in a row, so we just donated it and went on.It is a random hit on you and even though many others may have the same item and use the same words and brand just set it off to the side for now, what a while [maybe 6 to 8 weeks ] then re-shoot the photos and try to use different ways to describe it and then re-list it.
Good luck and you are not the only one at SL that has had a VERO. It happens and will continue until it all gets worked out with regards to the who owns what rights law.
mike at mdc galleries in Atlanta
You create your own business policies then name them what ever you want to call them. After they are saved, those then are the ones that will appear in the drop down list for you to select over and over. If you have policies in your drop down box it is because at one time you may have opted in or tried the Business Policies and had Ebay create them for you. But those are all editable by you.
I create about four or five of my own, like one is named under sixteen ozs. Cal. ship. Then I clciked what shipping choices I wanted in that title for the buyer to see when I listed items under 16 ozs. i also have an easy one, called Free shipping light weight and one called heavy weight. I also have one called Oversized and heavy and show USPS and FedEx and UPS choices under those.
You can also create several payment options policies, shipping and return policies. I even created a link and put in my dashboard short cuts area so I can click on it and it takes me directly to my policy page where I can tweak or edit my policies.
Great time saver, creates standard operating practices for your business and they become your selections from the shipping drop down. Especially handy when using software like WonderLister. Click, select, and boom shipping for that item is done.
I am with you Jay. We did the math and we agree too much. For less we could just rent your farm house, come up to see you and Ryanne, relax, eat out, talk some Ebay at the BBQ pit and enjoy the valley and Shenandoah area, the caverns and have money left over [if we drive].
P.S. How long does it take to drive from Atlanta to Luray anyway??
Mike in Atlanta
We opted into Business Policies a long time ago when they were first introduced. Comes close to SOP’s as far we are concerend which we like.
Agree about standardization. We have about 6 variations on shipping selections and just select the one that fits when we list. We have Standard payment and return policies also. These can all be accessed from dashboard and it shows which listings are covered by which policies if you need to take a look at which items are included.
Did you also see the blurp about Buyers being able to access a Seller’s Customer Service Phone Number”? Wonder what that is all about?
mc at mdc in atl
Yep.. Got my email yesterday evening. Did a quick look over and bookmarked it for further review. Yes, I was surprised at some of the new upcoming changes so will go back and re-read in depth. I saw the comments about having to drop the 20% re-stocking fee and TRS status. Ebay just keeps pushing toward the Amazon model. Free shipping, no restock fees, returns done automatically, etc.
For those who did not get the email yet or who may not.. here is the link.
But as Jay and all of us always say, whining doesn’t help, we have to adapt or die. So onward and upward.
mike at mdc galleries in atlanta
Absolutely brand new. It kills the listing and when it re-lists a brand new item ID number is assigned and your store listing gets the “Newly Listed” flag – sign on it. Many people are using filters to search for newly listed items. Also Ebay gives some “juice” in searchs and placement for newly created listings and that’s why we do it.
We use the GTC setting just in case we decide not to end this month, or if we are away or tied up then the listing will automatically roll over and stay in the store. If you only use the 30 day and forget about it sometimes items drop off.
In WonderLister if an item does end either by you manually killing it or if it ends after the 30 day cycle [if that’s what you use], then all of ithose ended listings automatically go into an “Unsold” folder. There you can review and relist them and do so in “bulk”. Highlight them all at once, click relist, click if you want any time / space between the listings and hit enter. Then go about your business and WL handles everything for you in the background, along with a new ID number.
WonderLister is also just about ready for a new version going from 1.00??? to the newest 2.0?? ver. I have been in their BETA Testing program for many months now and have been able to suggest improvements that fit right into how we here at SL do our listings for unique and vintage items. Those they have incorporated and it is wonderful. This program when released as ver 2.??? is going to be very strong as one of the best out there for doing what we do.
Jay wants to go to a numbered SKU system. Well that is going to leave him with having to create a Spread sheet for tracking. Not with WonderLister, new inventory can be handled in it as it comes in. If Jay buys 150 items on a weekend, just create a rough title, enter a SKU number, where bought, date bought and cost paid and that will start the beginnings of an inventory system. Then you can create folders as to where you want those “new” entries to be placed and show up in, such as New Raw Inventory, or Unlisted Inventory, etc. I named my folder Warehouse Inventory. Everything we have bought but not photographed or listed is contained there. When we did our taxes this year, all we did was print out a report of all of our unlisted items and then a second report of all our listed items, added the two together and there was our total Cost of Goods we owned.
Also WL has a small field for location Bin. When we put inventory away [last thing we do after listing], I take my laptop into the storage area, type in the first 4 digits of the longer sku number, up pops the item and I enter the bin I am placing it in and click save or enter. Now everything that is stored in our garage has a location to it. Well guess what, If I want a hard copy to put in a binder for some reason, I now sort my inventory by BIN NUMBER and just print out or export out a report and print out. The report will have all of the storage bins in numerical order and all items in that bin are shown.
I am going to be working with the WL tech team on being able to convert the SKU Numbers into Bar Codes and printing out item labels with SKU numbers on them in the coming future. But that is down the road.
There is just so much stuff you can do with when your items are logged into and one is using a relational database. It is just like any system that insurance companies, hospital, etc., etc. use. Once you have data in defined “fields” you can filter and sort tons of different ways and then generate reports from the final way that data gets sorted. The beauty of a database system over a spread sheet system.
I will leave it there for now. Just so much to cover.. also search SL for past discussions.
mike at MDC Galleries in Atlanta
Check into WonderLister. We have used it for years. It is a total listing, inventory, financial reports, taxes, type program [with some limitations]. There has been several long discussions here about WonderLister as well as SixBit. They have plans that start at $5 per month and allows up to 1,000 listings. Not bad at all. Then goes up from there. My subscription is $25 per month on WonderLister, allows up to 5,000 listings, I also have the Consignment module because we have 4 consignersa we list for, and we are allowed to create custom fields to hold any type of data we want to enter. We have where we bought, what we paid, where listed [Etsy, Ebay, Bonanza, etc.].
This program just takes almost anything you want to do with an online store and puts it all into one program. It has a free trial period. Sign up, and it will down load all of your current listings from your Ebay store. [same as what TurboLister used to do]. It is fast and a pretty slick solution to an all in one program. Of course one program can’t do everything but it’s pretty good. Look over the list of what it can do on their website.
It has a full editor, scheduler, many financial reports, imports and exports. It does everything that Easy Auction Tracker does combined with what Ebay’s Lister does.
With regards to the ending listing and relisting. I just did a end listing and do a relisting on 17 listings and it took 32 seconds. You can go to “grid view” then sort by end date, high light those and “bulk end listing”. Then WL puts those in a special view for you and here you can then edit those listings one at a time or do a “Bulk Edit” by adding a line to the description or anything in any area you want. Change prices up a dollar or down a dollar in bulk, basically anything you want, then I hit “Bulk Relist” and back up they went. You also have the option right at the re-list mark to have WL spread the re-listings out at intervals, separated by minutes or hours.
Go to WonderListers web site and look at everything it can do, as well as use the SL search boxes here at SL and search for WonderLister and read over previous discussions about it. We used to use Turbo Lister and Easy Auction Tracker but left that years ago when we wanted something faster, and all in one. We too haven’t used Ebay Listing tool in a very long time.
In WonderLister as we buy new inventory, we log it in, assign a SKU number and fill in the blanks in the Simple Editor. From there it is pretty automatic. We can pull reports of sold items, but also reports for all of our UNSOLD INVENTORY Not even listed on Ebay yet. Everything in our death piles are accounted for. We also have a folder in it for donated items and we can get a report of what we paid for items we pulled off ebay or never listed and have donated. It is a relational database and can basically search, filter and order the data you have filled in into almost any type of view or report you can think of.
WonderLister will also post a Tweet of any item you list on Ebay for you automaticaly. Click on the tweet box of say 10 or 12 items at a time and out it goes automatically.
And BTW, WonderLister is for PC’s only. It runs on MS SQL Database Manager which is part of the install and does not work on an Apple product.
But by all means if on a PC, go to
Mike at MDC Galleries in Atlanta.
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