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Join the conversation in the forum>> Our Store Week September 27-October 3, 2020 Total Items in Store: 7727 Items Sold: 39 Gross Sales: $1,254
[See the full post at: Scavenger Life Episode 482: eBay Can Be Lonely] -
Listening now, totally understand about the need for connection. I’m having a hard time with this and covid together- my circle has shrunk to about 2 in person people total and about 10 friends/family I chat with digitally. Like Jay, I’ve been listening to podcasts, reading, plus affirmations but I feel a little full of information and stuck with what to do. In the last two weeks I’ve listed like 150 items by myself, and although I’m loving the progress, I feel very much in the grind right now. This is definitely the crunch time in where I am for my business, and I am FEELING IT.
Numbers for this week:
Items in Store 501
Items Sold: 13 items sold, Ebay: 8 on Ebay, 5 on Facebook
Total Sales: $441
COGS $10
Total Profit $431 minus fees
Average profit $33
Average sales price $33
Highest Priced Item: $209.99, Beer Stein
New Listings: 69
Started off this week with my strongest sale of the year, so that was exciting. Update to the 85 year old, she had a few more boxes for me for cheap. Before I decided to commit, I totalled out how much money I’ve made vs how much inventory I have left of hers. I originally spent $200ish on inventory and $130ish on a truck (this is how I messed up, not renting again for a while) and in the couple months I’ve had her stuff I’ve sold $400 and have another $800ish in inventory thats available or needs to be lotted up for facebook. So, counting the truck I’m at like 27% COGS, and chocking up the truck as a learned lesson, I was at 16% COGS. I try to stick below 10%, but decided to call her back anyways and see what she had. She only had 8 boxes, which I could put in my minivan, and I haven’t scanned books at a particular thrift shop in her area (about 45 minutes away from me) so I decided to go for it and do books and make the drive worth it. Stuff from her is in quarantine at the moment, so I’ll check it out at the end of the week, but on books we found 1 $65, 2 $45s, Several $20’s, and about 45 books total. Books I take a higher Profit/Cogs ratio because I have better data on how soon something will sell, and pulled somewhere around $350 of books for about 4 hours work counting pulling and listing. Ive been seeing some more sales on Amazon already but not necessarily on Ebay, so we’re just waiting for the holiday season.
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Numbers for September 2020. eBay store: steve-list
Total Listings: 1192
Items sold: 65
Sales: $1440.25
Highest Price sold: $100 – Chill, Adventures Into the Unknown Game
Average Price Sold: $22.15
Cost of Items sold: $134.33 / average cost: 2.06
Spent on new inventory: $170
Number of items listed: 59
My numbers this month are very close to last month, $1440 vs $1446 total sales which I am very happy to have.
R&J, last week you mentioned changing everything back to global shipping, I was just wondering if you ever have had problems with pirateship.com? I’ve been using it ever since I learned about it in your forums a while back and so far haven’t had any problems. I’ve been getting more and more sales using it and now get 2 or 3 international sales a week. Just wondering.
Thank You both for all of the interesting stories and information on how to sell on eBay and live life.
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We’ve never used Pirate Ship. But its just a way to pay for labels, not an actual delivery company.
When you ship international, are you just printing a USPS label through Pirate Ship?
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Yes you just print the label – easy peasy. You can save a ton on 1st class international on pirateship. In some cases it is about half price with the simple export rate.
I personally use it for 1st class labels (to get more CC points)
and for west coast shipping of large envelopes (mainly shoes) to take advantage of cubic rate shipping.
As a shipping nerd, you really should set up Pirate ship and use it. It takes a few extra clicks when shipping compared to ebay labels, but every time you do it you are saving a couple bucks. It’s worth it.
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I understand PirateShip supposedly has cheaper labels. SteveList seemed to imply that his packages got through faster or had less trouble because he used PirateShip? That confuses me because its all just USPS.
SteveList said: “I was just wondering if you ever have had problems with pirateship.com? I’ve been using it ever since I learned about it in your forums a while back and so far haven’t had any problems. I’ve been getting more and more sales using it and now get 2 or 3 international sales a week.”
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Steve List – re: PirateShip “I’ve been getting more and more sales using it and now get 2 or 3 international sales a week.”
How would you connect your increase in international sales to PirateShip? It is not connected to the eBay Calculator and thus that discount would not be visible to, nor passed to your buyer. So I don’t see where you could reason the increase in sales is a result of purchasing the labels from a non-eBay provider.
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Previously with the Global Shipping Program I had only 1 or 2 international sales a month. Now it is about 2-3 international sales a week. You are right in that the buyer has no idea which shipping option I am using but they do see the shipping I charge and it is always a lot cheaper than the GSP rate and usually cheaper than the eBay calculated International First Class Package rate. I use a table for what I charge which is basically
- under 8 oz. $12.99 Canada/$15.99 all other countries
- 8 oz. to 2 pounds $17.99 Canada/$24.99 all other counties
- 2-3 pounds $24.99 Canada/34.99 all other countries
- 3-4 pounds $36.99 Canada/$54.99 all other countires
This matches up nicely with what Pirate Ship charges and it does leave me a few dollars padding. The shipping time for eBay, USPS, and Pirate Ship International First Class Package are all the same since they are all USPS labels and shipped by USPS. Where the time savings comes in is that GSP packages first have to go to the GSP center and be processed, which seemed to have taken an extra 2-4 days when I was using it, the USPS International FCP go direct, and for me that is San Francisco International Airport which is close. I’m not sure if it is just luck or the shipping gods but I’ve had packages take only 4-5 days sometimes to get to Europe.
Having no trouble shipping with Pirate Ship is probably just luck and I admit that eBay and USPS International FCP would have the same results. I did have trouble once with GSP. A buyer in Australia waited about 75 days after buying a $450 item with about $50 shipping and filed a claim with PayPal. eBay would not help me as they said it was past the 60 day limit on GSP claims, PayPal wasn’t much help either until a service rep explained that it was the buyers responsibility to pay to ship it back which they never bothered to do. So I came out okay on that one.
I apologize for taking a while to reply, as I just got home from doing errands all day and also for the wall of text. Now I get to go listen to the podcast.
Thanks Again Jay and Ryanne for all of the great content and information.
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Understood. Yeah, you’re just shipping USPS first class international. It’s great until it’s not. Sounds like you’ve had good luck with no lost packages or long delays.
USPS first class international is great for the buyer because its so cheap. But if its not delivered, then the seller eats the cost. The hope is you sell more to cover any losses.
We like GSP because we just need to get the item to the eBay warehouse. After that, eBay takes responsibility. Definitely more expensive more the buyer.
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@Jay – I’ve changed all of my listing that qualify to international first class recently and have noticed a significant boost especially to Canada. I hedge the risk by adding cheap insurance via Shipsaver. For items under a pound I pass along the Pirate ship discount to the buyer, so international first class below 8 ounces is only $8.95 to Canada. I usually only insure items that are over $50. So far no issues.
I have been giving buyers the option of eBay Ship but after hearing your experience I think I may pull that option.
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I’ve shipped international since long before there was Global Shipping. GS actually hurt my sales you might say since very few sellers shipped international back then. I used stamps.com for awhile, then switched to ShippingEasy for all my shipments.
I have had very few international non-deliveries over the years, not any more than domestic shipments. When I look at the savings compared to the few times I have had to refund I’m coming out ahead. I can usually beg a few extra weeks on these shipments before refunding and many times they do finally get there before I have to take action. When I do refund I ask them to let me know if they do eventually receive the order, and if they do I send a PayPal invoice and they almost always pay. I guess that ability is over now with Managed Payments, I hope that gets changed.
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I’ve also noticed more sales internationally due to shipping 1st class. I will say that SL has more volume than I do (currently have about 160 listings) so I send out a few international every month. I send them out Pirate Ship as well, they are great! Sometimes I add insurance to my international packages through them as well, which is only like a couple extra dollars. Just a reminder, you have to ask through chat to get their Simple Export Rate, which is cheaper than 1st class. I’ve lost more US packages than Intl.
I know Ryanne is a self proclaimed shipping nerd so I’m surprised she never jumped on Pirate Ship to look at cubic rates and such.
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Thanks Jay. I feel like I’m getting really well set up, just waiting for the sales to start in.
Re: Pirateship, I use it for all of my shipping that doesn’t get an Ebay label. Basically it’s just a discount service, kind of like GoodRX for perscriptions. Your main point of contact is still the post office.
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Great to hear from you guys.
I think I shall have to use the custom SKU henceforth. Till now I have put item locations into my spreadsheet only, but I think it’s not good for there to be no redundancy. I will never find things again if the spreadsheet ever gets messed up.
I had a slow to middling week on ebay, which is too bad because I went all in at an industrial auction and spent about $1600, as well as lots of ebay buying. Got some great stuff though and I’m sure it’ll work out very well.
Sales: CAD$1433, 12 sales, COGS: $82, Fees: ~$200, Postage: $179 –> Gross profit: $972
Expenses: $756, New inventory: $3047 –> Cashflow: -$2749
No huge sales, best was a lot of 40 usb adapter things for $240. I bought like 250 of these for a few bucks a while back.
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Hello, Jay, I posted an answer to your question about Pirate Ship earlier, but it disappeared into the ethernet as soon as I hit submit. Pirate Ship lets you print USPS labels. For USPS International First Class Package, even with my top-rated discount, Pirate Ship is cheaper than eBay by $1-$2 on lighter packages, and for heavier ones, I’ve saved as much as $5-$8 per label. Today, I sent a 4 oz. package to Toronto, Canada, Pirate Ship was $8.95, eBay USPS First Class would have been $11.08 and eBay Standard would have been $10. It may be a small saving, but it adds up quickly. I have no idea how they make money off of the deal as they only charge my credit card the amount of the postage. If anybody signs up with them, be sure to use the chat option to request the simple export rate which has the best prices. Note that I do not have any connection to Pirate Ship other than using their service.
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Items in Store 1468
Items Sold 23
Total Sales $1,305.00
COGS $65.00
Total Profit $1,240.00
Average profit $53.91
Average sales price $56.74
New Listings 1
Spent alot of time playing a new switch game with the family this weekend (Killer Queen – awesome), so not much listing. I did get a bunch of cleaning and organizing done that ABSOLUTELY needed to be done. I also did all the research on my Boyds Bears lot I got 2 weeks ago. They are ready to list this week. Nothing extremely valuable, but a few $50+ items. Some of them are pretty long tail it seems. Total list value should be around $700.
Volume was way down this week but my ASP was way up thanks to some high dollar items. The iRobot Looj sold at full price for $350. Score!! Sales like that are why it is soooo hard to stop scavenging. I would have missed that sale if I stuck with no-scavenging September. I scrolled through my sales for the month and counted over $1000 in sales from things I bought and immediately listed in September.
In other news, I finally finished all of the We’re Alive podcasts. Now I can get back to catching up on Scavenger Life. The last one, “We’re Alive: Goldrush” was freaking outstanding. I swear I had a smile on my face the whole time through 10 episodes. An odd thing to say about a zombie holocaust drama, but it was a different and completely unexpected style story.
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Sept. 27 – Oct. 3
- Total Items in Store: 3,987
- Items Sold: 32
- Total Sales : $952
- * BELOW yearly average of $1,014
- Highest Price: $150 (Vintage Dazor Drafting Work Bench Lamp)
- Average Price: $30
- Returns: 1
- Cost of Goods Sold: $46
- Costs of Goods Purchased this Week: $2
- Number of New Items Listed this Week: 20
This was a good topic to discuss on this week’s podcast. Loneliness is a big factor that doesn’t get mentioned a lot when talking about working from home. I’m a bit of an introvert at times but after a year and a half with drastically reduced human interaction, it’s really starting to take a toll on me. Especially since we moved so far away from our friends in the city. I wish I could get out and meet new people but the current global situation sort of makes that tricky.
I had a pretty good week. I made a few $100+ sales to bring up my numbers. Though I felt the slowdown toward the end now that you mentioned it. I’ve got a couple online auctions that I’m going to try this week. Nothing super spectacular, but they’re relatively close so it might be worth it to bid on a few things.
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It’s good you have a partner which hopefully makes things more enjoyable. If you feel your business is stable, might make sense to make more of an effort going to your friends. How far are you from the city?
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We’re an hour away from the city now. We keep making the trip whenever they invite us but it gets tiring after a while. And something always inconveniently comes up for them when we offer to host a get together. hmm
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I live by myself (other than my dog) and pretty much keep to myself weekdays. I normally spend weekends with my girlfriend and we get out to eat or other social situations. In my little town all I have to do is walk my dog, go to the grocery store, post office, etc. to see people that I know and often stop to chat with them. That’s another of those small-town things that many people might not understand.
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I wave at 80% of the people I pass on the road. In a city, people would think I was insane.
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Oh yeah, the waving thing. That was one thing I learned when I moved to a rural area about 5 years ago. It’s fun!
It actually would be crazy to do in a suburb or a city, b/c you pass by so many more cars there – you’d have to just keep one hand up off the wheel all the time.
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Another fun thing is never having to take out my library card in order to check out a book. I don’t even keep it in my wallet anymore. And when I say “never”, I mean “not even once” – they somehow immediately remembered my name and face from the one time I went in to register. New people really stand out, I guess.
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My story fits in particularly well with the podcast subject this week. I starting working on eBay when my company moved the plant I worked in to another state. I wasn’t finding a job in my field within a reasonable commute, so I decided to focus on my kids and start my little business. However, I just started a part time job in March. Kind of weird, but I heard about the position in the fall of 2019, and that is how the timing went. I now go into the office once a week and get my share of adult interaction and technical challenges. If the job gets busier, I should probably focus on that because it’s a great job and more money. I would miss the auctions and sourcing, though.
Did anyone notice that eBay replaced the 6x4x4 boxes with 6 x 4 3/4 x 4 3/4? My guess is that it fits better in the padded flat rate envelopes now that they are made just a bit smaller. This was mentioned by a caller several months ago as a 7x5x4 box no longer fits.
I started listing an auction purchase from about a month ago. I bought three bins filled with old dental / denture equipment. Not vintage, but not new. I paid very little for it, so I should do well. However, I found that a bunch of chemicals are not saleable, and I don’t think I can just throw them in the trash. I’m going to have to find a hazardous drop off day in my county and hope they don’t realize that it is not regular household stuff. Otherwise, I’ll have to pay to have them properly disposed of.
Week of Sept 27 – Oct 3
Total Items in Store: 1352 eBay, 35 Etsy
Items Sold: 13 eBay
Cost of Items Sold: $9.35 + $25 Commission
Total Sales: $337.26 eBay
Highest Price Sold: $91 Antique Imperial Club Rye Whiskey jug
Average price: $25.94
Returns: 0
Money Spent on New Inventory This Week: $0
Number of items listed this week: 33The week started well with the antique whiskey jug sale, then went to a standstill with FOUR days of NO sales. Then Saturday just kicked some ass and brought my numbers up to average. I had fewer sales but a higher average price. This week has started well with a strong Sunday, hopefully it will be a normal to strong week.
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What’s nice is you are not beholden to that employer since you have a small business to fall back on. A position of power.
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Absolutely! There is always a small (but doubtful) chance that the contract could be canceled, and I have my backup plan. If I didn’t enjoy working there, it wouldn’t be a big deal to just walk away.
It is a great, small business in its own right (about 120 employees), and I know several people from my previous company. In fact, the president of my new company worked at the old one as a consultant, so that is how I got the job.
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Hi Sharyn,
The 6 X 4 3/4 X 4 3/4 boxes are the 6 X 4 X 4 boxes. They even have the same printing on them. They’ve changed nothing. I ordered some last month, hoping they were bigger. I don’t know why they changed the listing, except that, when I measured them (both new and old), they actually do measure 6 X 4 3/4 X 4 3/4.
If you order them, you’ll be getting the same ones as before.
My 7 X 5 X 4 boxes still fit the USPS padded envelopes. They are a little tighter, but do fit and I still use them for mugs.
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The new size seems wider to me, but I can’t compare. I ran out of the old size before I received the new one.
When I try to fit a 7x5x4 box into a padded flat rate envelope, the corners push into plastic and at least one will cut into it. I can cut the top down an inch or so in order to fit it in, but I’ve been using the 6x4x4 box when I can.
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I just checked again. The 4X4X6 are the same.
My 4 X 5 X 7 boxes are actually 4 1/8 X 5 X 7 I bought from Ecoswift several years back and still work.
I’ve also got several of the older Padded envelopes I’m hanging on to, just in case the larger size matters for certain items.
I know.. this is total shipping nerd stuff…
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I’m so glad this was cleared up. I couldn’t understand because I knew these new boxes were slightly larger!! Interestingly, they are also difficult to get into a padded flat rate envelope. I tried with one and decided to ship a different way. I’m not sure I have a solution for that anymore.
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Yes, it all makes sense now.
Steve’s picture is truly worth a thousand words.
Of course my expectations regarding Ebay shipping supplies have been lowered, since they sent me the wrong boxes.
I guess if the new boxes don’t fit the padded envelopes, I may be better off with the old ones anyways.
The mystery has been solved.
Thank you Steve.
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As a test, I just tried putting one of the new 6 x 4 3/4 x 4 3/4 boxes in a Priority Padded flat rate envelope. The only way I could get it to fit inside was to first put it inside of a plastic bag so that it would slip in easier but even then, when I took the box out I noticed that one end of the box was partially scrunched down some, but that might be my fault due to not taking better care and time when pushing it in. Is it possible that eBay made the boxes larger knowing that they would not fit in the Priority Padded Flat Rate Envelope? From the eBay shipping calculator:
- 4 oz. box: $9.60/$8.40 with eBay discounts
- Padded Flat Rate Envelope: $8.40/$7.75 with eBay discounts
Individually $0.65 will only increase eBay’s take by 6 or 7 cents per transaction on calculated shipping, but multiply that by the thousands of eBay packages sent every day and it is a small increase in eBay’s bottom line – although it is a rather small one and one would think hardly worth the time and effort on eBay’s part.
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I was not able to get it into a PFRE without it tearing either. If you think about it, the 7x5x4’s that no longer fit would be similar in girth to these new 6 x 4 3/4 x 4 3/4 boxes.
I never thought about eBay wanting to get the additional revenue. Maybe they just thought that the old size was too small. I did notice that many of the 6x4x4 were slightly defective. Still usable, but the sides wouldn’t fold out right and the box wouldn’t be quite rectangular. Maybe their supplier had problems with their equipment on so small of a size, so they made them bigger.
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My guess is that they just got a much better deal on buying the new boxes.
The percentage of those boxes that end up being put in a flat rate padded envelope, must be very small and I can’t imagine it would attract Ebay’s attention.
The USPS. on the other hand, has a much greater incentive to adjust the size of their flat rate products.
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I think those of us who lean to the introverted side have it a bit easier with this work from home stuff. I enjoy my time alone and interaction with family and occasional phone calls with friends fills most of my social needs.
Did something rare for us this morning. Sold an extra fragile and large sculpture yesterday and took it to the Fedex office to have them pack and ship it. Wow! that was expensive. $142 to ship to California (buyer paid $52). I didn’t have the right box or enough packing peanuts, but in hind sight should have stopped at staples and bought the materials. It was good sale at $999, so there was a lot of profit still, but I didn’t expect it to be so much. Now I’m nervous that they wouldn’t pack it is well as I would. It’s insured so I’ll still sleep easy.
This past week was slow, but expecting gearing up for the holiday rush.
Week Ending 10/3/20
Total Items in Store: 1236
Items Sold: 15
Gross Sales: $561.54
Net Sales (after fees, shipping, etc.) $330.09
Cost of Items Sold: $42.28
COGS Percent 12.81%
Highest Price Sold: $59.95 Vintage Phone
Average Price Sold: $22.01
Returns: 1
Money Spent on New Inventory: $34.00
Sold via promoted listings: 11
Promoted Percentage: 73.33%
Average Days Listed: 209.53
Longest Listed: 602
New items listed: 20 -
Had a great example of an $27.00 international sale to Australia this morning for shipping via Pirate Ship:
2 pound package, 12x10x8.
USPS 1st Class International = $25.05
eBay International Standard Delivery = $22.00
Pirate Ship (USPS 1st Class Int’l) = $17.95
I insured via Shipsaver for sale price + shipping for $1.00.
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One thing that has made Ebay a little more isolated has been the move to online auctions. I really enjoyed going to large auctions and just being part of the crowd. I met and talked with a lot of people there over time and always enjoyed those interactions. Just picking up items after an online auction is just not the same and does feel a bit more isolated.
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9/26/20-10/2/20
Total Items In Store: 2074
Items Sold: 35
Gross Sales: $1485
Highest Price Sold: $500 (Rare Book – Vitology First Edition)
Average Price Sold: $42.45Returns: 0 $0
Money Spent on New Inventory: $109
Number of items listed: 0- A pretty good week in sales highlighted by a $500 sale of a rare book. I had the book listed for $750 and took a best offer. The best thing about this sale is that I got the book at a local auction for $1 last year.
- It was nice to rebound from the slow week last week and have sales back over $1000 for the week. Even without the big book sale, I would have been right at the 1K mark that I shoot for.
- I have always been irritated that I can’t get the custom sku from the sold page in the eBay app. Most of mine are still not showing the label, but some are now. Odd that it’s hit or miss like that.
- I got a call from my brother in Colorado this week. He was trying to set up an eBay store and had questions about selling on eBay. It will be interesting to see how serious he takes it and would be fun to share stories with him if he gets into it. My 19 year old son has been selling on eBay since he was 14, so maybe it will become a family thing.
- Does anyone know how managed payments works with taxes? I switched in mid July and I’m reconciling the last couple months to have all my paperwork ready for January. I am assuming that I will no longer have to write off sales tax, shipping and eBay fees and that eBay will only 1099 me for what they have paid out to my account. Does anyone know if this is correct?
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Does anyone know how managed payments works with taxes? I switched in mid July and I’m reconciling the last couple months to have all my paperwork ready for January. I am assuming that I will no longer have to write off sales tax, shipping and eBay fees and that eBay will only 1099 me for what they have paid out to my account. Does anyone know if this is correct?
Ebay’s 1099 should show revenue received which is likely to include sales tax just like the one from PayPal. It’s up to you to prove to the IRA what your taxable profit is so you’ll still need to be keeping track of expenses like shipping and fees. This is the best report (download) I’ve been able to find for getting a breakdown of fees & sales tax in one place: https://www.ebay.com/sh/performance/sales
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@mprw77 I totally agree: re auctions. I think thats the hardest thing about the pandemic for me. I LOVE auctions. I go twice a month to one about 20 minutes from me. They have free food, everyone is so nice, and it’s so much fun. I happened to see the auctioneer a few days ago because I’m sending something to auction that I can’t sell on Ebay, and it really bummed me out. He’s still having in person auctions, but I just can’t risk it. It’s not even like I don’t have the option for in person- it still happens every week, but I personally can’t go.
I’ve been really thinking about the podcast title this week. In all since Saturday, I’ve talked to my girlfriend, mom, therapist, and 2 FB meetups. That’s it. I feel like I’m in a bubble, but on the flip side I thought today if I’d rather pick up a 9 to 5 again and almost immediately pushed that thought out. I hate working for other people, I’m really happy doing what I do, and I’m seeing progress, but I wish I hadn’t taken the time to go full time during the plague. I’d love to be able to go list at a cafe and spend more time with friends, but the risk factor is super high for me. I recognize I’m being overly cautious, but I’d rather be cautious now and get out of it with the people I love. Rambling now, sorry.
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Thanks Simon…that is exactly what I was looking for. I was hoping the switch to managed payments would mean I wouldn’t have to track everything monthly, but it looks like I still need to. At least this breaks it down by month…my managed payments runs from the 15th to the 15th, which really messes everything up.
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9/27/20 – 10/3/20
Total Items Listed (2 different IDs): 303
Items Sold: 7
Gross Sales (not incl shipping): $175.05
Highest Price Sold: $30 – ‘80s Cross 10KT Gold Filled Pen & Pencil Set
Returns: 0
New Items Listed: 16
$ Spent on New Inventory: $0Posting my numbers among all you overachievers so I can eat my humble pie.
What is it about live auctions that I as an introvert love? I think that it’s a party I can watch and be in the middle of to enjoy but I don’t have to talk to anyone if I don’t want to, other than to raise my paddle when necessary and check out.
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Listings in Store: 728
Items Sold: 12
Gross Sales (includes shipping): $273
Highest Price: $37 – Cincinnati Reds Nike Hoodie
Average Price of Solds: $23
Cost of Goods Sold: $20
Returns: 0
Cost of Goods Purchased this Week: $84
Number of New Items Listed this Week: 18Gut Reaction to the Week: Another slow week. Very different from the boom days of several months ago where $500 sales weeks were typical.
Scavenge of the Week: Won a new Beseler 23C II photo enlarger at auction for $26. It’s missing two relatively cheap parts, so I listed it as Parts/Not Working for $400. I’m seeing comps on used ones at $550.
Thanks Ryanne and Jay for the podcast! Enjoy hearing the progress you’re making with the coffee biz.
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