- This topic has 12 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago by
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I received a letter from Schlage (text below), ordering me to cease and desist selling Kryptonite lock products. It was sent regular mail rather than certified. Looks to be the correct address and a legit company, “Allegion,” that sent it, and it was addressed to me and my ebay store name. I think it is real, but I guess you never know. I’ve never received a VERO claim or any messages from eBay itself regarding this product.
A year ago or so, I picked up some brand new Kryptonite locks at a flea market and have sold off most of it by this point. Even at my “peak” for that product, I probably had 2 dozen locks at most. I only have 4 of their products left in my inventory. Not like I am or ever have been a huge seller of this stuff. But now I get this letter and don’t know if I should take the rest of it down or not. On principle, I’d prefer to give them the finger and ignore it, but I also am not particularly interested in getting dragged into court. This kind of legal intimidation crap really ticks me off. I used my own photos for the listings, so I have not stolen any of their intellectual property. I couldn’t imagine even if they did have a winning legal argument that this pursuit could gain them even a fraction of what it would cost them in legal fees.
Curious if anyone here has ever received a letter like this or been sued? How do you think I should proceed?
We have made several attempts to notify you that your sales of Kryptonite, a division of Schlage Lock Company LLC (“Kryptonite”), products on the Internet through unauthorized channels of distribution violate Kryptonite’s Authorized Seller, Authorized Reseller, and/or Authorized Retailer programs and requirements (the “Policies”).
- This letter serves as a final attempt to demand that you cease and desist the unauthorized sale of Kryptonite products on the Internet and identify all sources of the Kryptonite products you are selling or have sold in the past before we turn this matter over to our outside counsel for further action.
As you know, Kryptonite goes to great lengths to ensure that its authorized sellers, resellers, or retailers (collectively “Authorized Resellers”) and customers have the best possible experience with Kryptonite products. To ensure customer satisfaction with Kryptonite products, purchasers of Kryptonite products must receive the quality controls and customer service that come only with genuine and authentic Kryptonite products sold by Authorized Resellers. To protect consumers and to maintain the integrity of the Kryptonite brand, Kryptonite has a zero-tolerance policy with respect to the unauthorized sale of its products.
You are not an Authorized Reseller of Kryptonite Products and your unauthorized sale of Kryptonite products violates federal trademark law and infringes on Kryptonite trademarks. In addition, by purchasing Kryptonite products for resale, you are unlawfully interfering with Kryptonite’s contracts and business relationships with its Authorized Resellers, which prohibit the sale of Kryptonite products for purposes of resale to persons or entities other than Authorized Resellers.
Therefore, if you do not cease sales of Kryptonite products, we will have no choice but to seek all legal remedies available at law or in equity including, but not limited to, monetary and injunctive penalties and placing you on our Do Not Ship list provided to our direct customers.
Please email Kryptonite at kryptonite.online.reseller@allegion.com within two business days from receipt of this letter to confirm compliance with the demands set forth herein or we will turn this matter over to our outside law firm to pursue our legal remedies.
Sincerely,
Tracy L. Jaques
Deputy General Counsel -
This is a problem with more and more brand owners try to restrict selling to authorized dealers only. If the letter looks legit, company letterhead, envelope, etc. it probably is.
If you are selling these as New then their next step is likely to file a VERO complaint with eBay. However, the consensus for this situation on various forums is that if you sell them as Used then there is no valid VERO complaint that can be made. That doesn’t mean they won’t still try or that you won’t still get a VERO takedown, but you could probably defend that as selling used. But, I’m not a lawyer and free advice can sometimes only be worth what you pay for it.
If it were me, I would take down the listings, write back thanking them for giving you the opportunity to correct this and stating you will no longer sell their products on eBay as new, then relist as used-like new.
My 2¢
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If they do file a Vero claim, Ebay will take down the listings and possibly suspend your account.
Whether or not you can resell the items, they own the name and images (regardless of who takes the photographs.
I don’t see how you can benefit from fighting or ignoring them.
Good luck.
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Personally, I would just sell them on another site. Take them off eBay and sell them elsewhere. When you relist, you might want to remove the brand name from the listing title.
There is a conflict with trademark violation and the first sale doctrine. Where does one end and the other begin? According to the first sale doctrine, you have a right to sell something after it was sold initially by the manufacturer. The company has trademark rights that they want to protect.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrineI really don’t know about new vs used. I think that the company is trolling the internet looking for where their trademark is being used one way or the other. That is why I suggest not having the name in the title. Keep it away from their Google searches.
I’m not a lawyer either, so consider other points of view.
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Obviously none of us are lawyers so take our advice with a grain of salt.
–I wouldnt take a letter like this seriously. Though the person’s name seems legit, anyone could have just copied off their website. Have they really tried to contact you multiple times? Could easily be a scam.
–eBay has a VERO program for these kinds of issues. If they dont know how to use the VERO system, ignore.
–We’ve had VERO takedowns over the years (one fairly recently). Never been suspended. I assume eBay looks at your history of abuses and know that companies randomly ask to take stuff down.
–This could be an intern being given busy work. Never will be followed up on.
–They’re going to pay an outside firm $500/hr to sue you for selling four locks?TLDR: Definitely dont respond. Take down the locks if you want to have piece of mind.
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I looked back through my emails and apparently this same firm did contact me through messages on Bonanza around this time last year with a slightly-less-threatening message saying I was an unauthorized reseller and needed to contact them. Seems like I may have received at least one other similar message through either Truegether or eBay. I always ignore stuff like that because I figure it is not legit. Plus, I firmly believe I have the right to resell products and do not need the permission of the original manufacturer. Anyway, it looks like somehow I made it on this company’s radar and they are intent on harassing me.
I have been selling these locks as new (because they are new). Maybe I should have listed them as used instead and possibly avoided the attention.
Bottom line is that I only have 4 of these left and already made my money back on them. I took the listings completely down from eBay for now at least. Plenty of other stuff to sell and don’t need this stress. Definitely not contacting them, though. If they were really serious, they would have sent the letter certified mail and required my signature. The letter was probably just a scare tactic, and I suppose it worked.
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FWIW, discussion on Amazon seller forums last year for the same brand and letter.
https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/a-seller-requests-to-remove-their-products/400089
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As a side and just as a thought, I had a thing happen yesterday where I wanted to edit a listing I currently have. I’ve had it listed just a month or less (so not long), and I just wanted to update it. When I went to save it and publish it, I got a big red flag from eBay saying that I can’t use the word Kevlar in the title (I’m assuming a VERO related thing). I went back, edited to remove Kevlar, and then listed with no issues.
My point is maybe to try editing your locks, make a small change, and see if a VERO comes up. If it does then act accordingly (change to used, fix it, etc…). Maybe it’s not a related thing and that won’t happen in your case, but I’d be curious to know if it did. I’m not sure how my listing went through the first time, maybe because I did it from a mobile device and their checkers aren’t good that way? I’m fairly certain that Kevlar has been on that list for a while now. I don’t know.
In any event, good luck.
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I had an issue with Kevlar about a year ago but was able to reword to be OK. The concern was not making the description appear as if Kevlar (Dupont, I think) was the brand of the product, instead only a component. In the past, I’ve also been able to get by with using the TM symbol after the word. HTML code is ‘& tm ;’ (run together).
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It’s nice when eBay warns you about trigger words in listings. But I find they are very arbitrary about it. You can use “Velcro” on any listing even though that’s one of the most common VERO takedowns (since its a trademarked name).
Why doesnt eBay just warn you not to use “velcro” when you list?
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