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Hey all. Question for anyone.
In the past when buyers requested a return for an item that arrived damaged we usually asked for photos prior to issuing a return shipping label. We used these photos to attach to and support our USPS insurance claim.
Now that we participate in the Hassle Free returns process and a buyer receives an item damaged is it really necessary to ask for the photos of the damage from them first before approving the return shipping label? If the item really is damaged it will still be damaged when we get it back and I guess we can photograph that damage from our end to support our insurance claim. If it is not damaged and was a case of buyer remorse, so what, we are in the Hassle Free Return program, so they get to return it any way.
Guess what I am questioning is now is there really a need to bother the buyer any more with having to take photos of the damage prior to return. Does it make any difference to the USPS if the photos came directly from the Buyer or from us at time of delivery or after the return back to our office?
Our thoughts here at our office is there seems to be no need any longer to bother the customer with having to stop and do that, the USPS really has no way of knowing where and when the photos were taken. It is a claim and there are the supporting photos and they will pay or not pay. If they need proof guess the written communication from the buyer and Ebay should be the proof they need to support it was received that way and our photos of the damage.
Having to put the buyer through the photo process and delayed time in getting his return approved by us may just tork them off even more and also sort of defeats the concept of the “HASSLE FREE” part of that program.
Any thoughts are appreciated.
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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The reason we ask the buyer for photos if they claim damage is to keep them honest. Sometimes we ask for photos and never hear back. End of story.
Even with Hassle Free Returns, buyers still have to request a return if they claim Item Not As Described. We still ask the buyer to send photos before we accept the return.
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In this case they sent us a message stating the damage and they also did request a return Label from Ebay’ s HFR program and it was Ebay forwarding the buyers request for a return due to recieved damage.
So I think they are really going to send it back. I know what you are saying about photos sometimes making buyers back off on false calims when they are trying something underhanded. But think in this case they will be returning it.
On top of that they claim in their request comment section that the parts broken off had dried glue all over the back of them and indicates to them that a repair was attempted and failed. Of course that is not the case but wonder if this is a prelude to an negative coming?
mike at MDCGFA
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Hey Jay: Here is same question I posted below for Sonia. It has been 4 days now and no reply from the buyer or any photos coming. The dealine was the 29th so tonight at mid-night I suppose.
So should I let the dealine come and go and let Ebay step in or should I go ahead and accept the return which Ebay is going to do anyway but by accepting it will keep Ebay from having to get involved.
This is the buyer who said the item arrived damage in the box BUT also accussed us of applying glue all over the ornate metal trim and gluing it all on. We never did, but who knows if it was glued on originally during mfg. or by another dealer at some point since we buy all our stuff third and fourth hand at auctions or estate sales. we never saw anything out of the ordinary during photography, listing or our other 2 inspections.
mike at MDCGFA
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Yeah, dont let the deadline pass because then eBay takes over and you get screwed.
Call eBay now and ask what to do. You’re asking for photos and they dont want to send photos.
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Thanks man. Appreciate your time today. How does it feel to be a “Real Estate Tycoon”. Conrad Jay. Has a ring to it doesn’t it? LOL 🙂
Seriously, I just went ahead and accepted the return. The label was only about $12 bucks. So as Sonia and Ebaymom said, who knows, they may have just been phishing and won’t send it back. If they do, then like I have always said to others here on SL, it is just a cost of doing business. Just like all the times we went to our antique booths and found broken items or stolen items. It Happens!
And since they said it arrived damaged, I will just take my own photos after it gets back and submit it for an USPS Insurance claim. It was insured for the full amount. So as long as the USPS doesn’t try to claim I didn’t pack it well enough, then maybe they will pay the claim and I will be whole.
But as Ebaymom said, just hope a negative doesn’t come out of this whether they send it back or not, because the buyer was indicating they thought we had tried to glue it together and pass it off as an unbroken or non-repaired piece. That is when I guess I will have to call and work it out with ebay.
Thanks for all the help, support and input SL. So much great support here with the SL members. Appreciate everyone.
thanks,
Michael Collins at MDC Concepts, Inc.
MDC Galleries and Fine Art
SmartParts Small Equipment Parts divs.[this is our formal corporate name and Dba’s… fun to just use it and see it in writing occasionaly 🙂 :-)]
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Also if we request the photos, and they delay past the “days” they have to respond, isn’t Ebay just going to issue the shipping label anyway? We only had 3 days to reply and a day and a half has gone by already.
About the USPS requirement for photos, Susan reminded me that we had a damaged item a few years back and we didn’t have the buyer send us hpotos but we took the photos once back here and the USPS accepted them. So maybe that answers the question if the USPS has to have the photos come from a buyer at the receiving end. guess not???
If they are “bluffing” then wouldn’t they have to go and cancel the Return Request from Ebay since they have already made the claim and Ebay knows of their desire for a return?
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It sounds like you’re answering your own question.
–Accept and refund if you dont want to deal with it.
–Call eBay if you want to take it to the next step. eBay reps often will understand why we require photos and back us up if the buyer doesnt want to do that.-
Thanks for taking the time to reply Jay. Know you are a busy man these days. Really do appreciate it.
I have added back into my reply to them our request for photos. Guess it can’t hurt and either they will or will not do it. I can call ebay if there is a delay and they procratinate. If I don’t ask for the photos, then I circumvent the chance it is a bluff. It is a $130 dollar purchase with about $20 shipping so maybe the more bases I cover the better the chance it might go away and if not, it gets returned and i will claim insurance from my end after the return.
Make it a great day..
Mike
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I think it’s a good idea to ask customers to send photos b/c even though ebay will eventually accept the return on your behalf, then if you receive the item back and there is nothing wrong with it and you call ebay to appeal the return reason, you can show ebay that you gave the buyer a chance to show you what was wrong with the item.
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Hey Sonia: This is sort of where we are coming from. We do participate in the Hassle Free returns program but as Jay suggested we turned off the auto send the return label and selected to approve each return. Given that then we got the Ebay notice of the buyer’s desire for a return. The notice said we had until Aug. 29th to approve. So we contacted the buyer twice now asking for photos and informing them when we get those we will approve the return.
well no reply or photos. That time frame ends tonight at midnight. Do you think I should at the last minute go ahead and accept the return or let the deadline pass and let Ebay set-in? Does that defeat the premise of the Hassle Free Returns Program?
mike at MDCGFA
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Hey Sonia and Jay…
Here is the original message Ebay sent us.
Respond to return request
Hi Michael,
downe-susa let us know that something is wrong with Ornate Polished Cast Aluminum Urn Vase w/ Handles Raised 3-D Leaf & Grape Design. As a result, they requested to return the item for a refund.
See request details and be sure to reply to the buyer by Aug 29, 2018. Note that if you accept a return, you’ll be charged for return shipping. Starting on that day, the buyer could ask us to step in and help by opening a case – this can affect your seller level.
You can ask us to step in and help if there’s a problem with the buyer’s request.
and this is what the buyer said in his request for a return and our options. We clicked contact buyer and requested photos. And we sent another photo request 2 days later..Notice Ebay says if we accept the return we pay for return shipping, but guess also if they step in we pay for return shipping but it may affect our status-standing
There’s something wrong with the item your buyer’s received, so they’d like to return it.
Please respond by Aug 29 or we may approve it for you.Info from the buyer
Reason
Arrived damaged
Comments
Vase arrived broken Broken piece has glue all over the back of it, so you must have known that it was broken when you sent it. Send me a label so I can return it and get my refund!
Select a reply
Accept the return
You pay for shipping and can send our return label or your own. Wait to get the item back before you refund the buyer.
Offer another item just like it
The buyer can still decide to get a refund instead.
Offer a different item
The buyer can still decide to get a refund instead.
Give a full refund
You fully refund the buyer to close this request. The buyer keeps the item.
Offer a partial refund
You have one chance to offer an amount. The buyer keeps the item.
Send the buyer a message
You can reply to the buyer.
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Ugh…I’m dealing with an INAD right now with a buyer who is simply too lazy to set up the item to work with their software. There is nothing wrong with my item.
I’ll have to add some additional info to the listing when I get it back to “idiot proof” my sale and explain my item is only guaranteed to work out of the box with a certain software and no others.This was a $150 sale with $24 shipping costs…so I’m out almost $50.
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Hi Mike,
If you haven’t already, I would recommend waiting until the very end and then “accepting” the return no matter what. You don’t want eBay to step in and do it for you because then they will refund him and he’ll be able to keep your item. At least make him send it back (if you indeed want it back you will be out the shipping and possibly receive a broken item). If you don’t want to lose shipping $$ then just refund him – but that is up to you. Based on the accusatory tone of the customer’s email – it sounds like fishing to me! It is also possible that the buyer dropped the item or damaged it on his own and is hoping to get his money back. You will never know exactly what is going on. I removed free returns from all my “Really Heavy” items so I don’t have to deal with this. I hope you don’t get a negative. Block and report the buyer. Go have a cup of coffee 🙂-
Thanks EbayMom:
Will probably call Ebay and just ask like T-Satt suggested, but also it is a very nice, heavy all meatk, double handled urn. If I accept the return and it comes back then iether I came repair it, since it is all metal and relist it staing it has been repaired, or remove the other side ornament and list it agagin as damaged or repaired and get something out of it, or as i mentioned in an earlier post, just claim damaged in transit which I think it may have been and get an insurance reimbursement.
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Mike: My take is this…
Call eBay and get guidance on the deadline, stating that before you accept the return shipping charges on a damaged item, you want to see if you can just give them a partial or full refund to resolve, but the buyer is being unresponsive. Let them know that you are trying to provide quality customer service (with a possibility that they don’t have to ship, you can just refund), but you are not getting any response from the buyer.
Second, this is why we still want to see the issue before we move forward. If the item is busted, why do I want to pay return shipping AND a full refund?
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Before today, I would have just said ask for photos, accept the return, issue the label, and dispute amount of refund later. But I just dealt with another FINAD where the rep told me that b/c I issued the return shipping label voluntarily (ie, not waiting for ebay to issue it for me), they cannot refund me the return shipping. But he did say that I didn’t have to refund original shipping. Also, b/c the return comments showed that the reason had to do with color, I didn’t bother asking for photos – I mean, how are photos going to show anything but the obvious, that the color of an item looks different in different lighting? Anyway, that was a mistake. So from now on I’m going to ask for photos on color FINADs as well. It just seems to me that the INAD situation is getting worse – everytime i call in, the process is slightly or very different from the last time. I mean, this guy even told me it would be best if I hadn’t voluntarily accepted the return at all! Crazy.
So in addition to always asking for photos, I think that now I will resume my previous practice of calling ebay at every single step in the FINAD return process.
Sorry Mike, I wish I had had better advice for you.
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Hi Mike
A bit off-topic, but your “Asian Bowl Carved Relief Embossed Surface” has a Emperor Qianlong seal mark on the base (though the characters are a bit mixed up). The carving looks very good. Usually Chinese lacquer is cinnabar-red; I don’t know what the yellow colour signifies. Could be Imperial yellow.
Terry
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AF: Thanks very much for the information. Now that we have 2 assistants working on liostings for us, things don’t get as much attention to detail and research as they used to. We appreciate it very much.
Going to share your comments with the both of them starting tomorrow and use it to indicate that some buyers will and do know about the items we sell than we do and that good solid research will help us keep the bases covered.
Another example we had a very knowledgable person that knows about Fiesta colors and their release dates nailed down a production date of a Fiestaware water pitche to 1983 beuase that was the year they introduced the “Sunflower Yellow” color.
So thanks again and we will do some rework on that listing tomorrow. Appreciate it very much indeed.
BTW, I jump off topic with Jay and Ryanne a lot. Jay sometimes calls my posts “walls of text”. Sorry, as a Sotherener I write as I speak and that is with a lot of details, try to paint a picture with words and usually an OK, that’s fine will do. 🙂
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We have two for a short period until we can build up the store faster to the level we are targeting. It was just too slow for Susan and i doing it ourselves.
The two assistants do the same thing only on different days. Christie does Mon.-Wed. 9 to 1 pm. and Lisa does Fri. and Sat 8 to 12.
They work in the middle of the process flow. We have two computer set-ups in the office area.
When we come in from estate sales or auctions we place the newly acquired items at the beginning of the “line”. We have a long 3′ wide x 56′ long table type set-up in a “U” configuration. We have it set-up like an assembly line. I do the unloading the car and bringing up to the office, unpack the items and stage them on the first tables and section them off with dividers from other sales usinh a short 2 x 4 piece of wood. I create the paper ID Tag and create the SKU number on that tag then do a “Qucik Entry” into WL. That is a short title, sku number just to have a template of that item.
Susan does the inspection, cleaning if needed and then does the photography. The photography station is in line with the tables, so in other words, the item begins it’s journey down the assembly line. On that small paper tag she will note any flaws see finds during the inspection process. The photos are uploaded in monthly folders and named with the SKU number for easy reference later.The object then moves on down the line to the listing station which has a laptop computer at it. This is where the assistants come into place. They are in the WonderLister program so they type in the first 4 digits of the SKU and up pops the Quick Entry template I created the day the item came into our office. Here they fill in all the blank fields that the template has [colors, sizes, descriptions and a few custom fields such as date bought, where bought, and scale weight. A scale is right beside the listing area. [we also have a second scale down at the end of the line at the shipping section]. They also attached the photos by just typing in the first 4 digits of the SKU and they pop in.
The assistants and that computer station also has two monitors attached to it, so on the right one they have 3 or 4 of tabs open to the places we most frequently research for prices and keywords on. They do some research on the items and place a few notes for me in the NOTES section of highest prices seen and where.
Then the item goes on down the line to my station. Here I will take items one by one and open the listing up and review what the assistants have filled in and drop the price in and decide if I will take offers or not then upload it. I also at this point place it in the plastic storage bin and enter that bins number in the Bin Location field. We keep empty storage bins that are pre-numbered right here at the end of the assembly line. I slip sheet everything with bubble wrap and then when full take the bin to it’s prenumbered shelf location.
Of course when something sells all I need to do is look at the SKU number on the sold area of WL or Ebay and the last 4 digits of that number is thew bin location. So I go to that bin, pull the items and bring into the office and go to the end of the table assembly line. The last 10 ft. is the shipping section and end of the line. Here we have all the various boxes on shelves and labeled according to size, misc. bubble wrap hanging over head to pull down as we need it. a large roll dispenser of 50 lb. brown kraft paper, and of course 4 different sizes of newsprint and mailers. There is a laser printer here also and packing lists and labels are printed out here and matched with the boxes as packed. Then all is placed out for pick up.
The assistants are utilized in the mid section of the whole assembly line process and all are 10 finger speed typist. They can out type us 3 times over and all the while have a second monitor screen with multi tabs open for research to copy and paste into the listings or paraphrase from.
We decided to invest into the labor to help us get to the 2,500 +++ size of store we are targeting as quickly as possible and to also allow me time to get down into the art studio and create new paintings, prints, sculpture and lamps. AND the big push is for one of them to start the Cross List onto Etsy and Shopify. Even though I have already started that to some degree during my tests, all indications are that Etsy may perform as well as Ebay or maybe even more as others here on SL have also reported.
So we are currently getting about 4 hrs per day of listing help x 4 to 5 days a week so about 20 to 25 hours per week at this point. This will only be temporary. The second assistant knows that come the first of next year we are going to maybe drop back to only Lisa our first assistant unless things really start to pick up and sell.
The one assistant Lisa is a trusted friend who has access to our house and the system. If we are out of town, I can text Lisa the SKU numbers and she can pull, pack and ship for us if needed.
Take Care guys.. Hope everyone is feeling much better.
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art
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Thanks.. Build the line,measure the line, monitor the line, measure the line, tweak the line, mobilize the line = LEAN = LOWER UNIT COSTS = INCREASED NET PROFIT.
You and I would make a great team together in another manufacturing facility. Crunch the speed, reduce the distance, monitor the capability, max out the capacity, cull out the rejects, minimize the rejects, lower the unit cost, crunch the numbers, increase the sale volume, increase the total volume at a lower per unit cost, and go collect or bonuses!!! and SMILE ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK 🙂
KAIZEN all the way my Brother from another Mother! 🙂 🙂 🙂
mike at MDCGFA
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Mike: Amen brother, and don’t I know it!
But we would also have to make sure that we get others that think WAAAAY different from us on the team as well. If we all think the same…some of us aren’t needed!
Big reason that I like this forum…many different ways of thinking and running a business. Take new thoughts, try them out, see if they work…repeat…repeat…repeat…
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I’ve only got limited knowledge of Chinese antiques myself- you might want to ramp the price up to something like 700 USD, say it’s got a Qianlong Emperor seal script mark and see what happens. Maybe nothing! The carving appears excellent.
I went down a metaphorical rabbit hole trying to sell a Chinese cloisonné cup. The cup was in bronze rather than brass, and a one-piece casting rather than built up from sheet, but the background colour was black instead of the usual blue or yellow. Sold it as a 19th century piece, but I think the unusual colour made it a bit questionable in buyer’s eyes, hence it went at a lower price than I was hoping to fetch. Never did find out when black cloisonné was in style, but I did find out that Ming cloisonné sells at a discount at auction on eBay UK compared with the same at brick-and-mortar auctions. Ming’s got bubbles in the glass, and the wires are different than Qing.
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