02/06/2017 at 3:01 pm #11897
So, I purchased what I believed to be a brand new scanner on Ebay about 2 weeks ago. I didn’t look too closely at the pictures (my mistake) and was suckered into buying a used scanner that was put in a brand new box with brand new, wrapped accessories. The scanner itself was in its original shipping bag, but was not sealed. It did not have protective closures on the inside as brand new ones have to keep it from being damaged in shipping. It was not taped shut on the sides as new scanners are. It was obviously used and placed in the box again to appear “new.”
In the original description, it stated: “I have removed this scanner from the box to photograph it.”
I contacted the seller immediately to remedy the situation. He said that it was brand new and refused to work with me. I opened up a return case immediately. He threw every trick in the book at me to say that I had “changed my mind, switched scanners, was confused, kept on repeating “brand new, brand new” over and over again. Aggressive seller behavior. I attached photographs to the return request of the minute I unboxed the scanner. It clearly showed staining to both the scanner lid and the scanner body itself.
Last week, I purchased a brand new scanner from another website that was actually new, actually sealed, with tape to the sides and inside. Exactly what I was hoping the scanner I originally bought would be like. It was a slightly different model than the one I wanted, since the one I wanted is not actually in production anymore. I paid up for an older model because of how much I like that model.
Today, on the final day, I contact Ebay to step in. The seller is obviously not going to do anything about it except to continue to tell me it’s brand new when it’s not. It said “contact Ebay on February 6th to escalate.” So, I called.
Ebay sided with the buyer. They took that initial “I have removed the item from the box to photograph it” as proof that it was brand new. When it’s not. It’s used.
I kept on referring to the photographs I attached to the listing. The customer service representative would not acknowledge at all that it was used. He just said “the buyer said that he removed the scanner from the box to photograph it.”
The customer support representative did not appear to be in the United States. He was also misogynistic. He would not take my word for it at all that it was used. Just that “it was removed from the box for photographing.” He would not listen to me at all. He also took the seller’s words that I had possibly switched scanners as valid because I told him that I go through 1 a year and know what a brand new scanner.
He said, “wait, you have had another scanner before?” I said “Yes, I go through 1 a year because I use them so much for my store. My store with over 12,000 transactions.” The guy that I bought from? He has 5 items currently listed. I have over 6,000 items listed. My complaints were not taken seriously at all. He asked what I would do if I were in the seller’s shoes, how I would have described it. I said, “Since this scanner was clearly used, I would not have listed it as brand new.” Would not listen to me.
Supposedly, a final judgment on this will be made tomorrow. They had 2 dates down on when to contact Ebay to escalate this. I am supposed to call back to talk with them again about this. The customer service rep was seriously sexist and would not take my side of things at all. Would not believe that the seller could place a used item in a box and call it new. Customer support representative was male, seller male, I am female.
Any advice on how to defend myself during the next call tomorrow?
I would seriously place this as a word of warning for buying new items on Ebay. You have better recourse as a seller than a buyer.
- This topic was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by almasty.
02/06/2017 at 4:19 pm #11911
As with anything on eBay, I would never take the first CS’s opinion as the last word. Call again. And always plead your case unemotionally.
02/06/2017 at 5:49 pm #11927
Hopefully tomorrow will result in a sane rep that can understand the problem for what it is. It seems like such a huge waste of money on Ebay’s part to have such bad reps that people need to keep on calling in order to solve small problems that should be resolved after the first call.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by almasty.
02/07/2017 at 10:42 am #11958
Please delete this thread.
02/06/2017 at 4:58 pm #11917LizParticipant
As Jay said, you need to state your case without emotion. Do not interject your belief that they rep and seller are sexist, and that is why your case is being declined. Frankly, it just makes you sound crazy, and people tune out the rest of your words. (And for the record, I am female).
When you talk to ebay again, calmly state that you acknowledge the scanner was removed from the box for photographs, BUT the item is stained and has signs of use, and that you can furnish proof of the prior use, which is contrary to how the item was advertised.
It doesn’t matter if they seller made you mad, and is a total jerk, or how you feel about the previous rep and seller. What will decide the case is whether or not you can demonstrate proof that the seller misrepresented the item.
If you do not get satisfaction via ebay, you can try contacting Paypal, or your credit card company as a last resort.
02/06/2017 at 5:44 pm #11925
First off, thank you for your response!
Yeah, I didn’t actually say that out loud during the course of the phone call. It was more of me reflecting upon it after the call, like “oh my, he didn’t take a word of what I said seriously because of my voice.”
“calmly state that you acknowledge the scanner was removed from the box for photographs, BUT the item is stained and has signs of use, and that you can furnish proof of the prior use, which is contrary to how the item was advertised.”
Yeah, I pretty much did this during the course of the call in a scattered way, but it continued to go downhill no matter how much I said to look at the evidence. I will use the way you pieced it together verbatim from the beginning to see if that works.
I actually did start off the call in a calm and unemotional manner, but the constant nay-saying to all my points did drag me down a bit. I still ended the call in a nice, professional manner.
02/07/2017 at 5:11 am #11948Anonymous
bit curious as to what kind of hateful unfounded defaming label you will give to a female rep if she sides with the seller in your case? Your theory is eBay didn’t side with you & since it was a male, then he is sexist and hates women and so does the seller because he claims he took the item out of the box for photographs? I can tell you as a both a seller and a buyer myself being a male that I have fought several bogus cases from buyers and sellers and had to deal with eBay reps both male and female that were not empowered enough to make a common sense decision in my favor and never once have I came to some conclusion that the rep was “sexist”.
I’ve had both male
And female reps make decisions on cases that I didn’t like the outcome of but I don’t start assassinating their character in a public forum with unfounded allegations. Call back and get a different rep if you didn’t like the outcome and try again and if you want to set women’s rights and respect back in time to 70 years ago just keep making ridiculous accusations like that or go march with all those women outside the White House that were holding vulgar signs and wearing foam vaginas on their head, because you’re not helping women gain respect when you do that.
02/07/2017 at 6:54 am #11951
They’re called pussyhats, dear. If I had had the time, I would have gone and marched on Washington with them. Yes, marching did serve a purpose. Yes, you are talking with a leftist. Thanks for asking! I am not ashamed to be a feminist. None of that matters in this thread, but I guess you had to take your anger out on someone over what you do not like, and the closest person was me in this thread.
To be honest with you, the seller posted 9 photos of the item in the allotted slots, 4 of which included just the empty shipping box with my address on it posed in slightly different angles. I am intimidated by that. I brought it up to the rep, who did not acknowledge it. I’m sorry that I’m a woman who is intimidated by a male seller that knows he can get one up on a woman by doing that. I fell for a psychological trick.
As for the rep, he would not acknowledge any of my evidence or photographs at all. He would only read the seller’s words and would not acknowledge my photographs, my written communications or my spoken words out loud. I know what it is like to be eschewed on the basis of my voice alone. This was one of those cases. Don’t tell me that I am perceiving it wrong. You are just like the rep telling me that I received a brand new item when I received a used one.
02/07/2017 at 8:50 am #11952Anonymous
Hmmm….well “Dear” first of all it appears you’re the angry one on here over the fact you didn’t like the outcome of ebay’s decision in your case to the point you’ve decided to accuse the rep and the seller of being a sexist woman hater. I do agree with the female that replied to your post on here who said you make yourself look crazy when you start saying things like you did. Second of all I didn’t ask if you’re a feminist or a leftist because I simply don’t care what you’re mental health issues are. In regards to your eBay issue, the photographs of the box the seller has taken for the return case is a very common practice used to show the item is the same one that was received back from the buyer by showing the box and shipping label it came out of. Absolutely zero reason to be “intimidated” by that because you’re a woman, so yes you’re perceiving it wrong and you’re not being “eschewed based on your voice”, you just simply lost a return case and I think a lot of us who read your post can see why. The good news is you now have an extra printer you can use or sell to compensate for some of the time you’ve spent falsely accusing every man that doesn’t take your side of being a sexist woman hater while you could have been listing. Good luck Sugar.
02/07/2017 at 9:01 am #11953
If you actually read what I said in response, I did not actually say any of that out loud. I was trying to make sense out of what was happening once the call was done. It is obviously pointless to make sense of what reps say. Most of them are following a flow chart which defies logic a lot of the time. Hence, Jay’s advice to just call and call again until you get someone that actually understands what the problem is.
You do understand what the definition of “wit’s end” is, right? I was frustrated to a point beyond what any decent person can take when dealing with a problem that seems as if it should end one way, but instead goes into a completely different direction. I was exaggerating and thinking out loud to this extreme while conveying my emotions in the midst of the situation.
If I, as an experienced seller, am feeling this way, what do you think our customer base feels like when they are scammed and Ebay is not on their side? Do you think they will return to Ebay to purchase any items from us? No. They will move onto Amazon, Walmart, another big box store. They don’t have the time, money or patience to be treated this way.
But yeah, I’m “mentally ill” because I’ve been ripped off. OK, gotcha.
02/07/2017 at 10:56 am #11959
Please let us know how your call goes – completely empathize with you over a frustrating buying experience. I recently went on an ebay buying blitz (a bit of an experiment.. trying to obtain some items from ebay to resell on ebay.. needless to say I won’t be doing this again anytime in the future, lol.. what a mistake, no profit to be had and I’ll have to work really hard just to recoup my investment). I just purchased a ton of bakelite jewelry. 80% of the items are authentic – I have had two overpriced items that were CLEARLY fake plastics, misrepresented. Of course I opened up return cases – these were all non-returnable items. The first person (we are all females, lol) immediately refunded. I was satisfied. Now, the 2nd woman is arguing with me, making excuses, “I was told it was bakelite.. etc. and said to return it and she’ll inspect it, and MAYBE she will issue a refund if she deems it worthy, etc. ” so that irritated me. I don’t want to engage with her. I’m not responding at all and will call ebay to step in as soon as I can. Can only hope they will determine the case in my favor. I do feel like giving this buyer negative feedback – but I purchased this stuff on my main selling account (big no-no, I know) and hate to have negatives associated with my feedback – even if it is me the one giving them out. If I don’t win this case, I will not be very happy – the bracelet is a piece of junk, at this point it is her word against mine.. so I’ll let you know what happens. Good luck with your case – I sincerely hope you get a more understanding rep. I think ebay has begin to trend towards taking more steps to protect sellers lately – good for us sellers, but not when we are taken advantage of by another seller…
02/07/2017 at 12:13 pm #11966
Good luck with your case! Have you opened up a return request yet, or is this just an exchange between you and the seller? I can’t even believe the attitude of some sellers – “I might take a return, or I might not.” Realistically, all sellers should maintain the same standards as TRS sellers – 30 day returns, no questions asked.
A lot of sellers have the belief that everything they do is 100% right, when in reality they do make mistakes and are not treating their customers fairly. The customer is not always wrong.
Here are the official results of my case:
eBay Customer Support has made a final decision.
We determined that the seller described the item accurately. Buyers can only get a refund if there’s something wrong with the item.
A refund won’t be issued for this case.
If you’re not satisfied with this outcome, you can send us an appeal
If you’re unhappy with a decision on a case, you can appeal within 30 days of the case being closed.
You’ll need to provide new information in your appeal, which may include:
A copy of your police report
Photos showing the item doesn’t match the listing description
Tracking details showing the seller received your return
If you have new information like this and would like to appeal, select Call us.
Since I have no new evidence other than the pictures originally provided, I am clearly stuck with it. C’est la vie. This has really put me off on buying anything on Ebay other than clothes, books, simple things. Shipping supplies. I will never buy an electronic item again. I feel like this has really shattered my faith in Ebay as a buying site overall.
I am especially perplexed by this case because it was “not as described.” I thought Ebay automatically issued returns for those cases? It was not like I selected “changed mind” or any other reason for a return.
02/07/2017 at 9:36 pm #12014LizParticipant
Almasty, dont forget you can always call your cc company to protest the charge. It is actually an easy process for the consumer. I have had to do it twice, once for shirts bought off Amazon that never shipped, and once for a sofa, of all things, (delivery co refused to deliver and then tried to charge me for storage and the original delivery). Paypal doesnt have a say in whether a chargeback is approved. It is between you and your cc company. So if you are really unhappy with the scanner, you can aways go that route.
Sorry ebay didnt find in your favor. :/
02/07/2017 at 12:40 pm #11967
Ah, sorry to hear that! What a bummer… I hope you have some good sales soon to help ease the frustration a little.
Last night I got a return request for a set of vintage golf head covers: here is what the guy said:
Return reason: Doesn’t fit(for example: clothing)
Comments: not one of these head covers fit on any one of my clubs and my clubs are standard
I know I could have made him pay return shipping… and charge a 20% restocking fee… but heck, I just refunded him the $24.99 and told him to dispose of them how he saw fit. Now I can sleep easy. He was really appreciative. I don’t have to worry about negative feedback. I only wish other sellers would extend these same courtesies – especially when an item is clearly not as described. You can try to open a paypal case… I would submit some new pictures showing the damage, etc. Doesn’t hurt to try. (But don’t get your hopes up.) With my last ebay buying experiment, it was really eye-opening how so many things were described as “Excellent” “No issues” “Practically brand new!” Etc, and then came with scratches, flaws and other imperfections. No big deal, but these were not always disclosed in the photos so you are left to feel like you were deceived somewhat! Not a good feeling…
Nice to be able to come here are vent a little :0
Have a nice day!
02/07/2017 at 3:31 pm #11981Anonymous
eBay mom – I would have to disagree with you on your practice. I’ve had to deal with ans study manipulation trends for a number of years and not requiring some sort of proof or process in an even such as your golf club heads transaction is not good in anyway for the rest of the sellers or even the buyer as well actually. First of all let’s assume for a a second that the buyer is honest and they don’t fit his golf clubs. Buy not creating a process for him when you’re listing was reasonable then you have now established in him an expectant attitude by setting precedent in his buying experiences, which in turn is going to narrow is expectation of used items quality and broaden his field of negativity toward sellers in the future when he expects to be able to keep an item that he doesn’t like or doesn’t work for him which is gonna to affect all the rest of the sellers. Let’s look at the other possibility here, let’s say your buyer is one that actually uses this method of theft. If that is the case (and it is more widespread through eBay then you obviously imagine) then you have just helped promote that type of behavior in the future again for more
Sellers to have to deal with my not requiring a some sort of basic process for a return. As a seller I’m disappointed to hear things like this. I like to take care of my buyers on all platforms but I also like to take care of the market and other sellers as well and I’m not doing that if in promoting a theft easy environment when I can still accomplish taking care of my buyer without feeding a bigger problem
02/07/2017 at 4:36 pm #11984
Thanks for your opinion – I appreciate your insight as an experienced seller. In this case, it was something I didn’t want back (Junky golf club covers that I got at the Goodwill Outlet for less than a buck – not something I particularly know anything about or enjoy selling.) Should I have held him more accountable? Perhaps, but I just blocked him. He only had a (5) feedback. I’ve been scammed many times with people trying to get refunds for false reasons – in this case I ALWAYS require them to return the item (and report them!) Honestly, just wasn’t in the mood last night – I think there was a high probability that his claim was valid and these covers honestly didn’t fit.
02/07/2017 at 5:15 pm #11991
Hi everyone. I’ve been following this conversation all day while Ryanne and I were at an auction. The mobile version of the forum isn’t convenient enough or I would have responded earlier.
This thread is venturing into the Facebook Disrespect Flame Vortex where people don’t respect each other and start arguing using unnecessary personal attacks.
So let’s have an episode of SCAVENGER COURT, where I am the judge because this is my website.
1. It starts with Almasty expressing an opinion about an experience she had.
2. Some of us wrote to give her a different point of view.
3. The problem came when 1sourcesales didn’t just share a specific solution to an eBay problem, but personally attacked Almasty that drifted in strange political rant.
This is the wrong way to go about it.
Call back and get a different rep if you didn’t like the outcome and try again and if you want to set women’s rights and respect back in time to 70 years ago just keep making ridiculous accusations like that or go march with all those women outside the White House that were holding vulgar signs and wearing foam vaginas on their head, because you’re not helping women gain respect when you do that.
4. Then Almasty gets offended and predictably fights back.
5. Everyone gets bored by people arguing because its boring.
1sourcesales, be nice. If you’re upset by someone, don’t crank it up a notch. That’s what Facebook is for. This is a place where we can disagree without attacking each other.
Also, I love you all.
02/08/2017 at 9:03 am #12044pythoneskParticipant
- Location: East TN
Thank you Jay! If we can’t disagree respectfully then we should keep it to ourselves.
02/08/2017 at 3:35 pm #12074
Thank you for your response, Jay! I haven’t had a chance to come back to this thread due to working & scavenging for Ebay/Amazon (yay, still busy in February! yeah!). I felt so bad once it started escalating downhill like that. I take responsibility for my part in it and am sorry. Hence, “please delete this thread.” I try to not get involved in flame wars like this – no one ever wins. I was still in the midst of frustration over the situation and just allowed myself to fall down that hole.
I was very appreciative of ebaymom stepping in to share her frustration as a buyer. I do think that this could be used as a learning experience, once the emotion is taken away from it. A learning experience as a seller, that is. Hearing the way my seller treated me, and how ebaymom’s negative seller overemphasized what she believed to be right really made me think about how I might be treating “suspicious” sounding customers. There’s always ways to improve the customer service aspect of things.
Luckily, today is a new day and I got some really nice new items to list on Ebay. Time to move on and ready those piles to list!
02/07/2017 at 7:00 pm #12002Anonymous
That’s a very very interesting response Jay. I noticed how your focus was primarily on me sending a reply to a very offensive gender based post by a female who was disturbingly trying to bring her political admitted feminist anti male movement cause to the forum and go as far as accusing the seller and the call taker as sexiest mysoginist with absolutely zero eveidence to support those claims. Yet your focus is on the response it got from a male reader instead of the initial horrible things she was saying that started this off. You can choose to pretend like she didn’t say the things she said in the manner she said them in with her first post but it doesn’t change the truth it just makes you look a bit unjustifiably bias toward a female in this case instead of the facts. Oh and by the way….I noticed you mentioned nothing about the female who replied to her justifiably saying she sounds crazy when she starts accusing men of being sexist and woman heaters over an eBay purchase. So much for you always wanting fact based evidence when in the end it comes down to the facts that are in black and white and you choose to ignore most of them to fit your “verdict” that you want
02/07/2017 at 7:15 pm #12003
1sourcesales, this is my property. I’ve asked you nicely to tone it down. If you don’t like how we run things around here, feel free to move on down the road. No harm done. Nice meeting you.
02/08/2017 at 4:00 pm #12077MDC Galleries & Fine ArtParticipant
- Location: Atlanta
Hey Jay: Funny thing came to mind after reading your response(s).
To quote from the movie “War Games”:
>>> Comment from WOPR (War Operation Plan Response), a United States military supercomputer originally programmed to predict possible outcomes of nuclear war and after running through a series of possible nuclear first strike and response scenarios says, “There is no winner in this game. The only proper response is not to play! How about a nice game of Tic Tac Toe Dr. Falken!”
LOL 🙂 mike in Atlanta
02/08/2017 at 5:28 pm #12080Twisted ThrifterParticipant
Some people just wanna argue. I see they are blocked now (yay!). Good move IMO.
02/07/2017 at 7:32 pm #12004Anonymous
I think that might a good idea Jay. Having spent 10 years in law enforcement and having dealt with a number of people that just want to make a one sided judgment on things instead of looking at the facts and then of course not responding at all the ones pointed out after you attack them is a good sign of the wrong place to be for a logical person. I’m quite frankly offended and so are my friends and partners that read the is the moment a person comes on completely disrespecting men by unjustly accusing both a seller and a eBay rep as being sexist mysoginists simply because they didnt support her return case. It’s a shame that such a nasty blanket offensive comment can be made by a female and your response is to attack the man they responded to it instead of where the origin of the problem came from which is obviously in this case from a the buyers initial comments in her first post. I’m a fair person and always have been through my career so I’ve asked a number of people mostly female and some male to read the posts and without influence give whatever opinion came to mind. Everyone of them including the females said her post was offensive and inappropriate to make such wild accusations about people. The males who read felt the same way but in addition to felt as if she had offended them personally as well. Great site you run, until you start having two sets of rules for people. Good day sir
02/09/2017 at 8:11 am #12123Linda ShieldsParticipant
- Location: St. Louis
People who make judgmental accusatory assumptions about the motivations of others who don’t give them what they want are, indeed, offensive–especially when they are besmirching something that is personal to others. They should be ignored rather than encouraged or debated. Whiners and blamers are never winners. They are acting like overgrown, spoiled babies throwing tantrums. (Haven’t we all been there; done that?) It’s one thing to be justifiably frustrated, but something else to blame it on another’s sex, politics, or ethnicity. You are guaranteed to offend at least half of the people on this forum. That’s why I usually agree with Jay when he just says “it’s business” and focuses on the facts instead of emotions. That is the only way out of a pointless morass. Glad we are moving on. We all make mistakes. I’m always thankful when people look the other way when I mess up. Just wish we could welcome 1sourcesales back into the fold. It was a two-way knife fight. :-). Just my penney’s worth. It’s Jay’s forum.
02/09/2017 at 8:43 am #12125
We’re pretty generous around here with how people communicate.
Three main rules:
–Don’t take things personally
–Don’t personally attack other people.
–Agree to disagree.
1sourcesales is always welcome back if he can enjoy being around our other members. It didn’t seem like he was.
02/09/2017 at 9:26 am #12127Linda ShieldsParticipant
- Location: St. Louis
Love the rules. Love the welcome back. 🙂 You’re a good man, Charlie Brown.
02/13/2017 at 3:59 pm #12447Eve EverettParticipant
Oh drat, why do I always miss the drama?
Look, have a seat.
Once upon a time I order Duncan donuts iced Carmel latte with sugar in the bottom. I did and do that bc it reminds me of breakfast cereal milk growing up.
However I had a constant problem. It drove me crazy. The DDs are generally owned by people from India in my area.
They never got it right. Either no sugar, or I’d get liquid sugar.
Is this a CULTURAL thing? Hmmm
Finally, after some questions with some local Sikhs I discovered it. POWDERED sugar.Not granulated. They call granulated powdered.
Ok. Iced Carmel latte with a lot of powdered sugar in the bottom please?
Boom. Correct ever since.
So you always have to think about culture these days. A rep overseas isn’t going to care about your misogyny. Many are translating from their language to English. But there is universal language for being a jerk. Is there that bias? Maybe, but it is what it is.
I have gotten light years ahead by asking a few things about their country and admiring how many languages they speak, while getting down to business. I get my way more often than not. Which is good I need all the help I can get. So do you.
- This reply was modified 3 years, 11 months ago by Eve Everett.
02/17/2017 at 1:18 pm #12773thrifty2Participant
I hope OP got her money back, that’s not cool. I opened a new buying account recently and started getting hit with seasoned sellers who thought because I appeared to be a newbie, they could send wrong items, give me wrong info about ebay returns, things like that. I am happy to say that after fighting since 12/24 waiting for a refund on a simple 8.99 item that was not the item seen in the listing, even though ebay closed it out against me saying I had not sent the return tracking # (which I had), a nice rep promptly refunded me the money-the best part is she did not refund me the $ out of ebay but right out of the dishonest seller who strung me along for weeks-and truthfully and sadly I’d forgotten about the limit to give feedback so I passed that date.
So, OP, try and try again please! Good luck.
(Sorry if you already answered this, after being on Facebook and watching the news I just couldn’t go through all the above posts!)
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