Help with buyer in Moscow please!

[LAwoman]

Happy 4th. 😉
I need advice on this, very upsetting.

I sent a new unused leather shaving strop to Delaware, USA for over $100, June 7th.
Today I received this from the buyer, who had it forwarded to Moscow:
The strop arrived today to me in Moscow, Russia, by the mail-forwarding service. The item is not “new, unused…” as described. I see two cuts by razor and scratchs (sic) on leather. I’m not satisfied. I need your comment please.
Regards,
Oleg””
He has not opened a return, officially.
How do I handle this? I know, and he knows, that the item was new (no knife marks on photos in listing – but that never matters with ebay lately) I do not ship to Russia (even through gsp). He used a freight forwarder. I am not responsible for the DE to RU part of the shipping, correct. I can’t afford a defect on my account, but he’s lying. What are my options.

Help!!
t

[Steven S]

Is the person in Moscow the actual eBay buyer or is it the forwarding company?
I think your in the clear as once delivered to the proper address you aren’t responsible for what happens during a forwarded transfer.
Call eBay and let them know what’s going on, if the messages are through eBay I think your safe as eBay does not cover an item after it’s been forwarded.
I wouldn’t message the buyer until after speaking with eBay.
Although you could actually tell them to return it, you won’t be out any international shipping as you sent it to a domestic address.

[LAwoman]

The buyer used an address in Delaware… which was a drop ship (or freight forward) location (they usually buy from many items, all going to the drop ship address, they save money that way as everything is forwarded in batches to Moscow.)

I have found Ebay is less knowledgable than folks on this board. I have gotten bad advice, or they know even less than I do. But mostly they pretend to note the transaction but can do nothing unless a claim is filed.

Anyone??

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

This is what we do and is offered just as a suggestion. We create and utilize SOP’s [standard operating procedures]. For every situation that has come up through the years we create a best practices SOP in writing and save it as a word document. We have about 2 dozen of them that covers a fairly broad spectrum of topics and issues that have cropped up since we started this business.

The use of written SOP’s makes it very easy to respond to any buyer who has similar issues as previous customers and using a SOP removes the emotional aspect out of your response. We never use our names, always use our corporate company name and note we are Inc. which we are. We also write in 3rd person plural so the reader sees us as a united company and all part of a management team.

In many cases the buyer is “phishing” for a refund or is “bluffing” about the return to ilicite a response for you to see if you will run scared. We use the Hassel Free Program along with our SOP.

Now we have not had many returns or damaged goods claims through the years, but who knows, maybe this communication keeps them from doing so, if they are just phishing. If a legitimate claim, then as we say please return it for a full refund.

But as soon as we get a message about wanting to return something, we copy and paste this and fire it right back. Then wait for them to make a claim. If they have filed a claim, we still do this. And remember Ebay advises to NOT REFUND until you have received the item back.

They only have a few days to return it, and if they don’t, the day the return period ends, call ebay and close the case. If they choose to return it, then once you get it inspect it, photo it, and then do the return within the 5 or 6 days you have. In the Hassle Free Returns you have to give the refund, but that is part of doing business. Now after the refund, call Ebay and fight your battle(s). You may or may not win, but they will see everything you have done, followed Hassle Free Returns Policies and now you are throwing the situation back at Ebay for a reimbursement fr what you feel is a “phony return claim”.

Here is the Copy and Paste SOP we use. Seems that many buyers just don’t want to go through the trouble. And if there reason(s) are baloney [full of it], you won’t win by arguing with the buyer anyway. Don’t plead with them and especially don’t admit to anything. Just say your Sorry to Hear About This and throw the ball into their court to take action. Jay has said this many times also. Just take it to Ebay when all is said and done. But in our case we have had numerous requests but only a few actual returns after we send this. We think the buyer just gives up when they see we are not just falling over dead and throwing a full refund back at them immediately. This makes them have to do something to earn that refund back. A call to action on their part and many just don’t go through with it. In those cases the SOP has done it’s job. If truly a return is desired, then do your part and when we get it, we will do ours. Simple and easy business procedure. If a monetary loss on our part so be it, that is just doing business.

We have received your Communication informing us of an issue regarding the item you recently purchased.

First, we are sorry to hear of your concern and appreciate you bringing it to our attention.

Secondly, we never want any of our customers to be unhappy about a purchase and that is one reason we participate in the “Ebay Hassle Free Returns Program.”

As members of the “Ebay Hassle Free Returns Program”, the returns process is an easy one.

We request that you follow this simple process and request for a return through your “My Ebay Buyer” account. Non compliance may result in an unfavorable decision on the refund process.

• Log into your Ebay account. Go to your “My Ebay” at the top of the screen and click on “Purchase History”.
• Find the item you wish to return and then look to the right of it and click on “more Actions” and select “Return This Item” in the drop-down menu.
• From the drop-down menu select the reason for the return and then click the “Return” button.
• Ebay will send you an automatic return authorization and a Shipping Label for you to print out and use on the return package.
• Please repackage and protect the item as you received it. Utilize all of the same materials, boxes, size and weights for consistency and so it stays protected on the return trip.
• Attach the return label and cover it with a clear protective tape to prevent it from damage and ship back to us within Ebay’s allotted time frame.

This link will take you to the Ebay “Returning an Item” page for detailed instructions.. https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763#full%20policy

Despite the rather detailed verbal explanation, it is a fairly simple process.

After we receive the item and it has been inspected for the issues stated we will proceed with the refund process according to the “Hassel Free Return Program Standard Protocols”.

We await the return …..

Kindest Regards,
the management team at MDC Concepts, Inc.
MDC Galleries and SmartParts Equipment divs.

Hope this may give some peace of mind to some. But it is just how we handle business as usual issues. We did the same thing when we were are large mfg. company. so par for the course for us.

Good luck and maybe many other suggestions from other members may prove to be a better way of dealing with these issues.

the management team at MDC Concepts, Inc.
MDC Galleries and Fine Art
SmartParts Small Equipment divs. LOL 🙂

[LAwoman]

Thanks for your help, Mike.
How do I get you my email address so I can get the docs, too?
😉

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

We use two email addy’s for our business and Shopify store but the Shopify store is still under construction and not actually very operable but few things can be seen. Currently we are heavily experimenting with our Shopify Store and also our Etsy Store.

Unsure if Jay wants us to post public contact info., but if I shouldn’t he will pull this off. If not… then we use mdcgalleries@outlook.com and mdcgalleries@gmail.com for now until we get our private ones setup on our new online domain store.

Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art

[T-Satt]

Mike: Love your message. We are similar, though not as professional. You’re making me want this written out as well. I’ve wanted Desk Procedures for these types of issues so I can just cut and paste. Gotta get on that.

I agree with Mike’s approach. Normally I would ask for some photos of the damage so that we can make a determination of how to resolve. In this case, he could have just used the item and now wants it for free. So…I would go with Mike’s suggestion, and tell him you will offer a full refund if he returns the item.

And you won’t be responsible for international shipping. Only the domestic side…

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

Hey we got a bunch. If you want I can send them to you in a PM to your email addy. They are all MSWord docs. You can edit and save them as you wish.

Let me know if you want them. I just got tired of writing [typing} out the same old responses over and over and customizing them when they were all pretty much revolving around the same type of questions or issues. With the SOP approach, it is more corporate, cut and dry and makes most of the replies just as they are “Standard Operating Procedures”.

mike at MDCG

[T-Satt]

Thanks Mike. Yes please, shoot them to my email.

It will force me to get this done!

Thanks buddy!

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

You betcha’. Just trying to help. We are all in this online game togther. 🙂

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

You bet.. Be careful what you ask for.. you may just get it! LOL

Just sent you my whole folder of both Standard and Custom Specific Customer Responses. Some Treasures – some junk but you may be able to edit some for a more generic SOP approach.

Check your “spam folder”.

Mike

[T-Satt]

If that is the case, I need you here in Colorado soon. Gotta packing party on Hard Goods to move over to the warehouse, got shoe racks to put together for our expanded inventory, gotta inventory them (about 270 pair) and get their inventory set up in SixBit…

🙂

I’ll come to Hot Lanta and do some work for you too! Maker’s 46 please…or Henry McKenna 10 Year…

[LAwoman]

How do I ‘professionly’ and without emotion, let him know that he has to get the item to deleware on his dime?

[So Cal Joe]

Mike (MDC Galleries) has great suggestions for wording above. If you are authorizing (and paying for) the return, I would suggest something along the lines of:

” Once a return is begun through Ebay, a return label will be forwarded to you. The return label will provide return shipping from the original delivery destination in Delaware to me (origin city). If you have any questions regarding this, please feel free to contact me, or Ebay directly.”

I wouldn’t bring up the Moscow to Delaware cost, unless the buyer pursues it. If he’s bought other items, he knows the drill.

Good Luck.. keep us advised.

[LAwoman]

I just sent off the combo of the two suggestions (So Cal Joe & MDC). Thanks so much. We’ll see what happens.

How do I send a PM to a member? I’d like to get my email to MDC. 😉

😉

[LAwoman]

Response:
“I have not the plan about returning. I mean price is not corresponding with item conditions as it was described on lot. I’ll prefer partial money refund. I consider fair reduction of the sale price by US $20.
The bit of pictures see in att.
Regards,
Oleg”

He attached photos of the strop with small knife marks. My listing pics show no knife marks. At all. Clean as a whistle.
So yes, he’s fishing. Do I just ignore him? Or reiterate he needs to return the item?
Thanks

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

Just my opinion.. but if we had used my SOP on his, it states “we want all of our customers to be 100% staisfied”, not we want you to be half baked, sort of happy. No, send it back.

Think of it like this, you buy a shirt at a store and get home and notice a few buttons missing that you didn’t see, or a small rip under the arm pit. You go back to the store and approach the customer service desk. Now what do you think there SOP is? In most cases, probably it will be, OK we will take this as a return, sorry about the issue you found, take the shirt from you and issue you either a refund or if been too long, give you a store credit.

Never been to a store in my experience that says, sorry, here is your money back, and here is some extra money to cover for your gas and wear and tear on your car for having to drive back down here and Oh, By the Way, you can keep the shirt also. Now put this into your mind for second, and just picture yourself working for that dept. store in the CS Dept. and this guy comes up to you with this strap. He said when he opend up what he thought was a new in box strap, he found small cut marks on it. Well I think you would follow the store’s Standard Procedure [SOP], as outlined above.. Sory for the inconvience, we had no way of knowing we will gladly take it back and refund you. Note the take it back, part. and note that you could not allow him to keep it either brcause of the stores policy. If you did you would hear from management the next day.

So same here. Your policy is we want you to be 100% satisfied, if not we refund 100%. Otherwise he is telling you how to run your business, he is calling the shots and is hoping yopu are not a smart business person and willing to emotionally cave and let him keep the item and give him money back. Nope. You are saying you are unhappy and we don’t want you to be. Givee me the starp and i’ll give you your money. And you can tell him, what he is asking is not your store policy period.

As a side note, there is no way you can tell if what he is showing you is your strap or an extra one he had laying around. Your word agaginst his. Time for us as sellers to stick to the way we run business. Customer service with a smile, please our customers within the guidelines of how we run our business, follow our own procedures.

Heck we are a coporation. Susan is Secrtary and I am Pres. but our customers don’t know who is who. That is why we use the “we” in all our correspondence. This guy thinks you are a one person show and is going to try to capitalize on that. I would say you just work for this store as a helper and your employer has policies and you are just follwoing the rules. Either keep it or send it back.

this is one reason I am willing to eat the return shipping on some items because I can stand my ground. You may say, he may never return to my store agagin, my reply “good”.

But again this is just our business model. I have heard before, from amember here at SL, “I don’t treat my customers like that”. This is not a bad thing, it is a good, thing, total restitution to make your customer 100% whole and 100% HAPPY, no questions asked, just give me the item back and here’s your money and an apology about him being unhappy, just not at making me loose double the money.

Again..no malice here, just explaining a way to make dealing with these issues, staright out, standardized procedures. As Jay says, arguing gets you no where and saying too much could give some buyers ammunition.

What he is saying is just his opinion. One thought, is that due to what they are pointing out is why you did not have it priced even higher, but you don’t want to admit to anything.

I really think that some buyers think that all sellers on Ebay are just mom and pop people selling out of their bedroom and have now real business sense about them. How many in the news try to get free meals but just being louder than everybody else.

If he keeps it, you don’t have to refund and he leaves a negative. Then there is your battle. Call Ebay, state your case, show your hptos, they will see what he is up to, and [hopefully] ask Ryanne on this, you will probably get it removed.

Keep us posted.

Mike at MDC Galleries.

[T-Satt]

Mike: 100% agree.

And well said!

[LAwoman]

Additionally… (sorry folks, I’m upset eek)
If I refund him $20, he can still start a return since he never opened one, correct?

[Ryanne]

i say, tell him just to send it back for a full refund, then silent method, no more talking.

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

Yes what Ryanne is saying is the simple straight forward J&R method. But in my longer reply I wanted you to see the reasoning behind the benefit of developing SOP for most situations and sticking to them. It is a business sensibilty and process that leads to amethodical improvement in a business infrastructure.

[Sharyn]

Yes, if you refund him money, he can still open a case. This is one of the reasons that many of the suggestions above say just to tell him to return the item.

On the other hand, he might just go away with the $20 refund.

If he leaves negative feedback because of the damage, you can call eBay and explain that the buyer used a forwarding service, and that you shipped out an undamaged item. If they read through all the messages and see that he is from Russia and you shipped to Delaware, then they might remove the negative feedback.

[Inglewood]

eBay will side with you when a buyer uses a re-shipper on anything and admit it. They have provided usually a false phone number (it is not there phone number – usually the re-shipper) and shipping address. False address/contact info is against eBay’s user agreement. Using re-shippers is against eBay’s user agreement as well.

As long as you shipped to the address provided, and tracking says it arrived, you are covered. PayPal will cover you as well for the same reasons.

[LAwoman]

I did cut and paste your post re: 100% satisfaction. 😉 I have no issue with that. I returned many items INAD purchased through small sellers (not often,) more than I should have had to, sadly.

Now, if I refund him 20$ to make him go away, would that prevent neg feedback or can he still open a return as if I never partially refunded him for his ‘inconvenience’?

T

[LAwoman]

Thanks everyone… I feel better now. 😉 Since I have already sent the the buyer an email re: returns, 100% customer satisfaction, etc etc, he either returns it for a 100% refund, or doesn’t, at this point.

T

[MDC Galleries & Fine Art]

Amen.. and some of us see partial refunds as basically a bribe against him leaving a negative feedback. Run your business smart, run it secure in mind and spirit. You do something wrong and are guilty, then fess up and pay up for your error, but not a bribe. If you did nothing wrong, then stand pat, stand strong. We are American Small Business that employ over 75% of the work force of this great country.

Too many scammers are out there, so have your SOP’s and stick to them. Offer help when a buyers asks, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. If Ebay is moving into the 21st Century with modern best practices to compete then so should we.

Some here at SL have been talking about books lately, my suggestion is a Paperback book called “Ninety Days to an MBA”. Great Reading on all the things we think, in our opinion, a business owner should have at least some awareness of, in my opinion.

Since it is the 4th of July .. may I offer a slogan addendum .. instead of only using “Made In America” lets change it to “Made, Sold and Resold in America” 🙂

• This reply was modified 8 years ago by MDC Galleries & Fine Art.

[LAwoman]

Bravo!

[Author]

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