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Lovely still life with fruit and a flower.
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Good morning:
Can’t make out the signature but do want to chime in before you expel a lot of time.I am assuming, after all we have talked about here on SL [which all is searchable], that you know you have an offset lithographic press printed reproduction and that the signature only exists on the original that was photographed and not on this “reproduction”. This signature is printed right along with the image.
If you use a magnifier of at least 10 power or higher and examine the print, you will see it was printed in the 4 color offset colors, most likely run on a 4 color, high speed printing press. You will most likely see that the only colors under magnification you will see will be yellow, red, blue and black. Then how are all the other colors appearing to you that you think you see. Well I have explained that whole process several times in the past about how the use of “halftone screens” [ben-day dots] break and image up into various size dots and varying closeness to each other to trick the mind and eye into seeing colors that are not there.
Then given these facts, being an offset repro, these presses run at about a minimum of 1,500 impressions per hours up to 7,000 plus sheets per hour. Given that most press set-up and breakdown take about two hours, most reproduction printers, after some market analysis will prefer to run a press for about 4 hours minimum. And if the print sells well, then they may do re-runs at later dates. So, there could easily be 20,000 plus repro’s of this out in the wild somewhere.
The paper that repros are usually done on are not archival quality, not even close. Most are commercial grade paper, and at 20,000 plus sheets per run, bought by the skid-pallet load. Most have a high acid content, are bleached white, have no- water mark and are around the 60 lb. sheet weight [about the thickness of 3 sheets of 20 lb. computer paper] and sometimes only 40 lbs. All have straight cut edges, which means it was cut using a guillotine paper cutter and many times cut two smaller sheets out of a larger sheet when originally bought for a better price. All the ink used in repros are non-archival and fade quickly, especially when exposed to direct sun with the red and yellow being the most susceptible.
If you have ever walked through antique malls or thrift store or even yard sales and seen framed prints that look mostly blueish / dark purplish in color? Well those are cheap repros, done in the 4-color offset process and the red and yellow has faded and left the blue [cyan] and black behind.
Now add to this the fact that the print does not have any pencil signed, titled or date information which would indicate a smaller print run and that the artist actually was present and at the least placed his pencil marks [his own name, a title for the work, and especially a date] with his own hand acknowledges his presence at the print shop for a part of the printing mfg. process.
I can tell repros usually from several feet away and with a loupe even more can be discovered.
Most [but not all] are not worth much more than the paper they are printed on. I very often will by framed prints, pull the backing off, pull out the print, throw it away and then use the frame for another work or one of my own works. I have a studio of about 50 or more frames right now that I have stripped out and dumped the cheap repro that was framed. The frame and glass can bring way more than the repro that is inside.
So, I am not trying to bash the print you have but want to help you start out with a proper approach to discovering what you have first before investing a lot of time research who the artist is. Even if it turns out to be a known artist, it is not an original of any kind and not a known fine art printing process that is recognized in fine art circles.
I am offering this just in case you start on doing a lot of research, to save you some time, I strongly suggest that you get a loupe, even a 6 power jewelers loupe or a 6 power linen tester, they can be found at Michaels, Dick Blick, or your local art supply store. Keep it with you and use it out in the field. Susan and I both carry ours with use all the time.
Good luck with finding who the artist is, but first I am suggesting you find out what you have and again no offense is intended or implied. Just trying to help.
Also, I suggest you search both the old SL Blog and the newer SL Forum using terms like reproductions, 4 color process art print, repro art prints, etc. and read up on a lot of information we have covered in the past.
Good luck and will watching to see what you find.
Kindest Regards,
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art -
Hey Mike, thanks for the input. Yes, I knew they were prints, but I didn’t know the dreadful output of these things. 20,000! Sheesh!
Normally I don’t do art. I just don’t have a large enough art background or enough knowledge. I’ve only listed a few art pieces that I was given and this is another set that was just dumped in my lap as part of an enormous box lot. If the art is boring, framing is crappy, or both, I just pass it on to good old Goodwill. If it’s not really crappy, per se, but still doesn’t make me happy, I pass it on to the local thrift store, where they’re more discerning about the quality of crap they accept. These two are beautifully framed, really lovely job, and I thought the prints were very attractive. I was wondering who the artist was for keywords, not for any expectation of value, to be honest. I’ve unpacked a few prints where the prints were awful but the frames were magic. However, when they’re framed as well as these two, I like to leave them as is. These frames are heavy and feel like good quality. It would break my heart to take them apart! 😉 But now I’ll consider it.
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You are perfectly welcome. Again, I didn’t want to come across as all negative, but trying to offer information for those who don’t know some of these things. I have a very strong background in art and printmaking.
You made me laugh with the following: “they’re more discerning about the quality of crap they accept.”. LOL-Funny 🙂 A quality scale for “crap”. On a scale of how crappy is your crap. Slightly crappy, very crappy, makes me puke crappy, stinks to high heaven crappy, I wouldn’t put it in my house but I will sell it to you crappy, etc., etc.LOL 🙂
Good luck with it buddy..
Mike
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LOL. My sense of humor comes from my Dad. He had a brief stint selling odd items from the back of a truck, back in the day where getting rid of a load of some odd item was a bit more difficult than lotting it up on eBay. One afternoon, he had a load of toilet paper. His spiel was:
“Toilet paper – today only in four sizes: large, medium, small, and eeeeugghhhh!”
😀
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Mike – you piqued my interest and now I’m baffled. I did a search on frames on eBay to see if there was any market there for the impressive collection of old frames I’ve built up and… not really! There are SOME frames that have a good price, usually because they’re interesting and unusual or made of some expensive materials. But generally, frames aren’t really worth much at all.
So, in your comment about how you normally strip a picture for its frame, is it because you still do framing and it’s part of that business, or are you selling the frames on eBay?
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@Amatino: Yep you got it right. We don’t resell frames, I use them to frame my own work, my daughters work and loose prints that I have in my collection portfolios or find in the wild.
I will buy almost any frame that is a Structural Industries or a Neilson metal frame, Gold, Silver-chrome or black and use it for our work. Most metal framed prints come with either a glass or plexiglass sheet in it.
At our art supply house where I can buy at a deep discount, tax exempt, it usually will cost me 3 to 4 times more than what I can buy framed art prints for at garage sales.
I had a lady one time tell me after I bought a framed print for $4 that she hated to sell it because she loved the water color painting of the famous “Fox” theater here in Atlanta. Well I knew it was a reproduction and there were thousands of them all over. So, I asked her for a phillips screw driver and disassembled the piece right in her garage and handed her the print. She was so shocked.
All I said was I understand. I have loved the Fox theather’s interior for years and have attended plays, events and concerts there on “Ole Mo” the grand Wurlitzer organ and it was a gift for her.
That frame and glass would be about $35 to $40 my discounted cost, which I got for $4 and she got her lovely print back. Which she said she would go to Hobby Lobby and get re-framed. My wife, susan stated in the car later, well she will be in for a surprise and I replied “Yep”.
To give you a price comparison: A 24×30 matte black Neilson frame will cost retail 2 pc. of 24″ for $36.24 and 2 pcs. of 30″ at $43.29 retail. So $79.53 without glass. Then another $8.50 for glass plus tax = $88.03 then Labor on top of that and if you need a matt cut, you need to include that. So she will have to spend about a $100 ++ to get the print re-framed. I got the frame and glass for $4. 🙂 and do this all the time, when I can find them.
Also I find loose reproduction prints a lot and will buy them or posters, and will frame them up myself and sell them for more.
I am going to be listing some prints in a few eeks which the posters and prints all cost me under $15 each, I have already framed 6 or so up and will list them for about $75 to $150 each. I even have a few small ones already done this way listed in the store now, but the bigger ones are coming later.
Actually I have several portfolios full of real, silk screen prints, all pencil signed and numbered from my days of being hired to complete limited edition prints for New York artists that did not have the skill sets or equipment to produce their own work. I always arranged to get 10 signed “artists proofs” for myself as part of my payment.
>>> My wholesale cost on the re-framing the lady would pay over $125 for would be $18.58+$22.86 = $41.44 less another 10% to 15% if I catch a Sale, then tax exempt [for resale you know – wink, wink] for a total of about $35 to $37 and glass at about $5 and I french bevel cut my own mats, single or double.
Sorry, I should have stated a few more details. Sorry you went on a hunt that wasted your time.But empty frames by themselves doesn’t bring much as a resell, but has much more value to an artist who can find them in the wild for pursonal use or to frame up repro’s to give “added value”.
My rule of thumb is because I know that even at wholesale prices metal frames will run me $.39 to $.45 per lineal inch, if I can get frames in good, unscratched up condition for under $.20 per running / lineal inch I am in like flint. 🙂 And when I can find them for under $.10 or even $.05 like the example above I am in hog heaven.
AND YES, there are cheaper wood frames with mats and glass from Ikea or Michaels or Hobby Lobby, or Dollar General type of stores made in China with cheap wood, but I like the quality of Neilson Anodized Aluminum frames with good quality mitered corners, a tight fit and quality corner brackets. Just my preference.
Susan declares when I get framed pieces, “How many more frames do we need!” I always say, as many as I can get.
I also always buy art supplies and equipment whenever I can. Two years ago, I sold one of my older Grumbacher used pastel sets. Many of the colors were used down to nubs, many snapped in half and a few colors missing. Sold it for $125 [if I remember correctly].
Hope this all clears it up. unless you are going to use them yourself to frame art, this is not a pipeline.
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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The Frame Blog for a very time-wasting introduction to the world of high-value frames.
I learnt my lesson with a large signed print by a Nottingham artist who specialised in birds. Purchased for £2 from a car boot sale; the artist’s website indicated that they were selling prints for around £250. Had it reframed for a cost of about £75. Sold at auction for £5 (which meant income exactly zero after costs).
I recently bought a large piece of cloth which seems to be some kind of Polynesian artefact. Whatever it is, the original owner thought enough of it to have it professionally framed (and properly framed- not like the rubbish that many framers get away with) in a heavy 4 foot by 2 foot frame. Cost me £20. Frame, with its 4-inch wide mouldings, must have cost the owner around £150.
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@ Antique frog: Very nice link.. The frame Blog. Now those are some very nice frames and are museum worthy pieces and yes those have value.
To deal in this type of merchandise, one needs to know framing techniques and recognize between cast molded resin relief pieces and actually hand carved relief profiles and to be able to identify “real gold leaf gilding” when you see it. A whole other specialty niche.
But those frames are gorgeous. Who knows were a frame from the Louis the 14th era was hung, who’s house and what painting was in it.
Thanks for the link.
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art
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Wow. Just… wow!
An interesting rabbit hole, and I’m so glad I didn’t invest money going down it!
Thanks guys!
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@Amatino.. May I invite you to do a few searches here on both the SL old Blog and the newer Forum and use key words like, half tone dots, benday dots, reproductions, art repro’s offset litho prints, color blindness, limted edition prints and the such. You will find about half a dozen or so of longer, detailed posts that covers a lot of information about reproductions, how they are made and how to spot them in the wild. That information will arm you with two types of information. One, how to spot the cheap repros and what not to buy and also help with identify the characteristics of what should be included in real fine art printing processes and what to look for.
One of the best ways to tell good quality, art printing processes though, is too have gone to school for print making, actually done many of the processes yourself and studied the surface characteristics under extreme magnification. Knowing what the ink lay down and surface of an etching compared to a silk screen print is tough to do without advanced traing. I can even make a silk screen print edition of prints, “Look” like it was an etxhing process and it would take a very knowledgable person to tell how I got that look from the screen printing process.
And of course, we can’t leave out today high end digital Giclee printing processes. Damn near impossible to tell how some prints were done.
BUT a tip, real oil paintings are fairly easy to spot and distinquich from repro prints of a painting with fake brush strokes applied to the surface. Learn how to spot those and to describe them in your descriptions and real oil paintings in some of the more elaborate frames still do sell. Many interior decorators will buy them for their clients or buy and re-sell them in thier own shops.
See ‘ya..
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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Bamber Gascoigne’s “How To Identify Prints” is a good (and readable) guide to the various processes. Seems to be two editions- the first is pretty cheap secondhand, and covers all the traditional stuff.
Another interesting blog is Modern Printmakers, although it hasn’t been updated since March 2018. Also the writing style is a bit idiosyncratic.
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