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TL:DR
- Before 10konthebay, he was a high end shoe seller.
- He still apparently still had a high end shoe store on ebay that he didn’t really talk about on Dailyrefinement.
- He sold 1.8 MILLION dollars of high end shoes on ebay last year.
- Apparently a high end shoe collection was stolen at some point and ebay was contacted by law enforcement so ebay instructed all high volume high end shoe sellers to provide invoices.
- He didn’t have the invoices – he bought directly through individuals and payed with Zelle.
- He is now permabanned with no chance at appeal, and is in the process of completely shutting down his online sales business to do it in another form.
I’ll be honest, ebay is right to do this. 1.8 MILLION in shoe sales in a year – some pairs selling for $50k+??? Dude can claim all his shoes are real all he wants but this has criminal fencing operation written all over it. If he is not a conspirator in some kind of crime, then he’s a blissfully ignorant moron. He’s clearly a highly intelligent person so….yeah. Odds are incredibly high that there is already a federal criminal investigation that has at least partially targeted him whether he claims innocence/ignorance or not. Everything he says on his youtube channel can and will be used in a court of law. Dude should probably NOT talk about it on there.
Ebay wouldn’t make this kind of move unless they were under serious pressure by the feds. Being on a federal grand jury for 18 months gave me a pretty thorough understanding of how these kind of investigations work. In many cases the feds will keep allowing the crimes to continue until they build a thorough case with multiple charges on the small fish so they can leverage the small fish to testify against the real targets.
I’d venture a guess that if it is to the point that ebay is shutting down stores that the hammer is gonna fall pretty soon on someone and an indictment would be coming. Stay tuned as this will likely end with a national news story.
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Very interesting that he kept that part of his business “secret” on his Youtube account. Makes me think he knew the risks.
At about 5:30 in the video, he admits that the actually NET PROFIT on 1.8 million in shoe sales was low, and wasn’t worth losing access to eBay.
Easy come easy go. Wonder if he’ll be able to replicate his high volume + low profit clothing business on another platform?
EDIT: he actually said he wouldnt sell on Mecari or Poshmark because its not set up for big sellers. Talked about either selling used clothes wholesale to other sellers. or opening a brick/mortar thrift store? Seems he killed the Golden Goose.
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I would bet this has happened with a large volume seller in almost every niche with very high end items. Something similar occurred late last year with one of the largest eBay card sellers, PWCC, which DailyRefinement mentions in passing at one point in the video.
The official reason PWCC was kicked off eBay was shill bidding (which is rampant in the card world, especially among consignment sellers) but the company/owner of PWCC are also complicit in working with “card doctors” who alter cards to receive higher grades, and there is tons of evidence demonstrating their involvement in this. The level of research and analysis to prove this card trimming is amazing, to the degree where the message board posters from Blowout Card Forums who were involved in the research earned the nickname BODA or “Blowout Detective Agency.”
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1297767
Another similarity between PWCC and DailyRefinement: at the 2021 National card show, there was a lot of message board chatter about a possible FBI presence and investigation. In fact, there are articles about PWCC which have discussed FBI investigations going back to 2019. But nothing has come of it yet. In fact, PWCC has shifted auctions to their own website.
https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/weekly-auction
Most serious collectors and resellers (myself included) don’t deal with PWCC since their sale prices are extremely inflated compared to previous sale history, most likely because of continued shill bidding, and I have no doubt they are still selling altered and trimmed items without disclosing that.
But some sellers become so large that it’s impossible to keep up with every item. Or greed gets in the way and they don’t care until they break enough rules that eBay notices.
Many casual buyers don’t know any of this and just want an item for their collection, the hot deadstock sneakers or to buy stuff to start their own flipping business. And these large volume sellers end up with a lot of highly prized items just through sheer quantity of inventory. Others will never care, as demonstrated by PWCC’s continued existence and many of the YouTube comments on the DailyRefinement video in support of him as a seller. I’m skeptical that DailyRefinement will be able to pivot to a successful reselling business without eBay. But everyone in the card world has expected PWCC to fold and/or face criminal charges for a few years now, and it still hasn’t happened.
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It is interesting that PWCC haven’t suffered consequences in the card community.
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On the surface maybe PWCC hasn’t suffered consequences. But I would bet their sales are much lower now simply because the majority of card sales happen on eBay. There is really no way to replicate that kind of marketplace on an individual website. And I won’t be surprised if they end up facing some kind of criminal charges in the next few years.
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In the BOSS group on Facebook, there is two big time clothing sellers on there who insinuated he has been permabanned from other sites prior to this. I don’t know where that info comes from,but he did start discouraging cross listing in his videos and said he would rather dissolve his online presence rather than go to Mercari or Poshmark. A bit extreme, unless he already can’t go to them.
yeah I got a chuckle out of all the celebrity worship people kissing his butt on the comments. It’s kinda like politics. Politicians who commit big crimes or take advantage of their privilege and get caught always get a pass from their supporters.
1.8 million in high end rare 1 of 1 shoes from “his buddies” in cash transactions in a single year…if you really let that sink in you really can’t blame eBay for thinking something is off enough to decided they no longer want his business whether they were pressured by Nike or law enforcement.
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Podcast where he details more of what happened. His story keeps changing though. Now he claims all of the shoes were from a single “celebrity friend”.
He sold all the shoes during a no FVF promotion ebay was running. He claims his margin was only 10% and the only reason he could sell them was because of the no FVF promotion.
Really the best part of this podcast is technsports lecturing him the whole time about how stupid he was. They claim that he hid this whole endeavor from Technsports.
Maybe I’m too cynical or maybe I watched way too mush JCS criminial psychology interrogation analysis investigations (HIGH RECOMMENDED! https://www.youtube.com/c/JCSCriminalPsychology) but I feel like this is an attempt to publicly CYA.
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I’m really surprised he keeps talking about the issue. Maybe he’s hoping he can keep being a “thought leader” and continue making money being a podcaster + selling coach.
I assume the authorities (if involved) are going to want to know who the “celebrity friend” is.
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Wow, this is really sad. While I’m not a fan of those pay for coaching groups that a lot of these big youtubers push I saw him as a guy who had a very good work ethic and had managed to build a nice business for himself. Really a shame he risked his business for such a shady low margin deal. As for him being “finished” I’m sure he’ll pop back up in some form or another.
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Really a shame he risked his business for such a shady low margin deal.
I seriously doubt the margins were as low as he claimed — probably quite the opposite.
I also think that when we start talking about sales numbers this large, specifically with ultra-rare/high end “collector’s items,” there is almost always more than meets the eye. For example, earlier this year Logan Paul made some headlines for buying an extremely rare sealed box of first-edition Pokemon cards — which turned out to be resealed with junk cards.
https://kotaku.com/oh-no-logan-pauls-3-5-million-box-of-pokemon-cards-wa-1848356807
If that’s where you stop paying attention, then you might think that Logan Paul was out $3.5 million. However, eventually he got refunded.
https://www.thegamer.com/logan-paul-35-million-refund-fake-pokemon-cards/
The other buyers and sellers in the string of sales of the box (it passed through a bunch of people who are well-known in the card world) also all got refunded. This wasn’t a scenario where some random guy had a box of cards in his attic and found a way to get in touch with a celebrity billionaire who got screwed, or the random guy got screwed. It’s always more complicated than that. Add social media to that, and there is almost always more than meets in the eye.
But at least we all have our little oasis in the interwebs. Sell trash, be free…$20 to $40 at a time.
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I find it funny the podcast linked above has 30 ads on it.
The biggest red flag here was selling production samples from well-known shoe brands. Why even risk that? They were never for sale at any point, and were either 1) “walked” off the production line (stolen), or 2) Gifted to people who would presumably never resell them, who in turn sold them to this guy.
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All I know is a MAJORLY miss Jay and Ryanne’s Podcast, it’s needed now more than ever! I’ve started the YT videos all over again just so I can pretend it’s still on. <3
I’ve been watching/listening to Chris consistently for the past 2 years. He mentioned that he had sourced shoes from a celebrity contact/friend of his a long time ago so that’s not anything new or anything he was hiding. All of the sneakers were authenticated by eBay and the customers were happy, satisfied customers. Some of these sneakers were vintage & some were promos etc., given to this celebrity friend. He didn’t have any invoices because you can’t have invoices for these types of “gifts” given to celebrities. Celebrities notoriously get freebies so this isn’t anything new either, however, I do understand why eBay would want an invoice but if this is the case then sellers should have to scan the invoice prior to listing or something. I have my original Nike “pleather” sneakers from 1981-1982 but I don’t have the receipt from when I was 12-13 y/o so I guess I’ll never be able to sell them. Lol. But in all seriousness, I want to learn more about what items we need invoices for and what items we don’t. I also find it interesting that eBay is pushing designer shoes, sneakers & designer handbags & watches now & I’m not in love with where they are heading, and Poshmark is creating a total mess with my sales down 90% on there since they tweaked their “algorithm”. I’ll end my post by saying, I really wish Jay & Ryanne would pretty please create a new podcast 🙂 read the alphabet, I don’t care, I just miss you guys!! 🙂
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Chel – don’t get caught up on the invoices aspect of this story. This isn’t about Ebay expecting the average seller to keep invoices on every item. This guy sold $1.8 million in shoes in a year, including several that were never meant to be seen by the public. This story has got federal investigation written all over it.
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Chris just responded to Ralli Roots’ video on the subject & Ryan pinned Chris’s response:
“Appreciate the video. No counterfeits, receipts, and bank statements with friends weren’t sufficient chain of custody proof from suppliers. eBay actually rewarded me with lower fees bc of volume, that’s why I have an NDA from eBay fashion and their legal department. eBay did not reach out beyond asking for invoices. No red flags with IRS bc checks and receipts to suppliers is enough for them, they aren’t checking for provenance. After January 19th, eBay actually gave me lower fees in the sneaker category bc the promo for 0 fees ended, I cannot disclose the terms of the fees; however, I can assume that eBay already did their homework, or they wouldn’t give me lowered fees, that’s a pretty big deal. I would guess managed payments/payment processor suspended me bc eBay wasn’t able to help when I reached out. Could be above them. It’s possible I could be reinstated, but unlikely if the risk was deemed too high. Also, all one of one’s are tracked, so they know where they are from and I actually think eBay and Nike both know the origin. I’ll make a formal response video later, today is baby day. Cheers!”
I look forward to learning more from his upcoming video soon.
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I started listing to his podcase after this one ended, I did not like the advice he gave to sellers he interviewed. I get it eBay is eBay but If I am selling coins and you are selling books very different. He always had a magically way to follow to get the average sales to $1k per month and then to 10k per month. Something always seemed off about him.
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Agreed Chris started giving me shady/salesman vibes before this because I realized through bits and pieces of things he would say that he actually had not been doing his process that he presents on YouTube for very long and had poor buyer reviews from about a year ago. Not saying you can’t make mistakes/learn in the process but it seems weird to prop yourself up as an expert with not a lot of actual track record.
That being said I actually subscribed to the Patreon podcast even after all this because I keep listening for Technsports. IMO Chris just copied a lot of his method (nothing wrong with that) and polished it up for Youtube.
@Jay from what I understand he’s trying to sell off of Whatnot.-
here he is: https://whatnot.com/user/dailyrefinement
is this like a low-rent QVC website?
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Hey Jay, just stopping by. I’ve been on WhatNot for about a month now. https://whatnot.com/user/popeyespostcards It’s been a game changer for me to sell bulk lots of postcards. I’ve been doing shows every Tuesday and Saturdays that last for 3-4 hours and just started doing lunchtime quick 30-45 minute shows on Thursdays. I’ve been averaging about $650 an hour. Some shows have been better than others. But I should reach about $18k in sales for the month of May after my show on Tuesday. That’s 3 months of ebay sales in 1 month. These are postcards and ephemera that have been in my backstock for years that I will never get around to listing individually on ebay. I think my small, but dedicated, youtube following has really helped my sales. It’s not for everyone and I’ve seen sellers really struggle to sell anything. But, I’ve been having a blast.
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That’s incredible. So its just like a QVC show where you show off each lot and then people bid? Assume people text chat you questions and you answer? How do people pay? Any issues with returns?
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Yep, it’s pretty much a live auction with some QVCesqueness to it. I usually have 25-30 lots of postcards and I flip through each card and then do a 30 second auction on what I just showed. There is a live chat going on that people can interact on / ask questions. I’ll answer any questions live. Buyers have to pay by credit card and it is immediately charged. A notice will pop up showing if payment was successful or failed. I’ve not had any returns and there are no returns for buyers remorse only if I grossly misrepresent stuff. But, since I show every postcard the buyer will receive, I don’t see that ever being a problems. Their fees total about 11-12%. You don’t get money in your account until after the item is delivered. Pop in tomorrow night and watch how it goes.https://whatnot.com/live/78de7afc-9d4b-4b7b-b850-abc50d02aa0d this is the show link
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He sold his eBay inventory by the box on whatnot. It came out to about $7/ item.
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I dont know what kind of items he had, but that’s a pretty good price for a firesale, especially if its just clothes.
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