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I was at the bins this last weekend and overheard an interesting conversation. One woman asked another woman who had two baskets stacked high if she sold online. The other woman replied that she didn’t. She said that she rented three spaces at a vintage mall in SE Portland. She pays $3800 in rent for the three spaces and 15% commission. She said she has to sell $4800 a month to break even. The other woman asked her if she made any money doing it and the woman said, yes, I do this for a living.
I was frankly astonished by these numbers. Over the years I have rented mall spaces here and there at premium malls in Portland and the surrounding area and the most I ever paid for a space was $350 plus 12%. I can’t even imagine the sheer volume of stuff she has to process to achieve a living. She was buying mostly clothing.
I thought y’all might find this interesting. Vintage is definitely thriving and well!
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I’m skeptical too, Jay. I looked at the website for the vintage mall and saw pics of rack after rack of clothing, and she can source that easily and cheaply at the bins, but still. I used to have a brick and mortar and even though rents are high in Portland, she could be renting her own storefront for less than the $3800 she’s supposedly paying the mall. It seems extremely high rent. I am buddies with the owner of another antique mall (who has rent at about 10% of what she’s paying.) I’ll ask him if he knows anything about the other mall.
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I am highly skeptical also of any of that information. We had 6 12×12 booths at the largest antique mall in the USA if not the largest around many other states. 110,000 sq. feet on two floors on two levels with 550 ++ sellers.
Our rent was $90 per booth. So for 864 sq. ft. we paid $570 per month or approx. $0.66 per square foot.
In metro Atlanta the more popular malls charge $300 per month per booth so if we had been at those it would have been only $1,800 per month.Now the rubber to the road statement. I was friends with the owners at the largest Mall and know that within the first 5 years there highest sales was $1.2 million dollars. Simple math showed us that if you take 1.2 million and divide by 550 vendors/sellers that comes to an overall average of only $2,181 per seller annually or approx. $182 per month. Now subtract the booth rent of $95 that leaves $86 avg. now subtract the COGS and then add in the 10% commission the owners take ontop of all sales and that means most people were in the red.
In my conversation over time with the owners I come to find they had an internal code called the triple digit club and the comma club. Come to find that meant any seller who made over 3 digits or $1,000 per month. When I asked how many members were in the “Comma Club” percantage wise the answer was less than 10%. So approx. 55 to 60 sellers made over $1,000 in Sales per month. Our highest Sales were usually about $800 per month and we had as many items [over 1,000] as we do in our Ebay store.
If you figure if those 60 sellers made more than the $1,000 that removed $55,000 per month from the total Sales. So the $181 dollars on the share and share alike number above goes even lower. Maybe even under $100. So if their rent was $95 per booth I then asked, how many Sellers don’t even make there monthly rent and the answer was about 90% of sellers don’t make rent much less cover their COGS.
The turn over rate in Antique Malls is very high and usually a complete turn over every year or two with the average stay being only 3 to 6 months they said.
My conclusion, which I told them face to face, the only people making money in the Antique Mall business is 10% of the Sellers and the Landlords! They both smiled and said I was correct. Now Now almost 8 years away from those days, that Mall still has not broken the $2 million dollars in Gross revenue.The gross rental revenue was $52,250 per mo. = $627,000. Subtract this from the $1.2 million that leaves $573,000 in total annual income from the dealers Sales. Divide that by the 550 Sellers that rent from them and that equates to approx. $1,042 per vendor and that is annually which comes out to about $86.00 per month. So these numbers, looked at both ways, equals my revelation that Booths are for suckers and not a viable business model or any one thinking of reselling used merchandise.
At $95 per month for a 12×12 is good if you need a storage for excess inventory, fine, but they make you ave to clean it, you have to spread out and display the inventory and you would get a whole lot more in a tightly, well organized space, close to your home.
So as Jay says, Online Auctions are for Suckers, so are Antique Malls. Those owners as they got to know me, siad I was one of only a few dealers that ran our booths as a real business. Most sellers. I can tell you as we got to know most of the dealers there and talked with them, most did not know what a P&L statement was, didn’t know how to calculate gross and net profit and most over 50 years of age [which most were] were computer illiterate. Had no idea of how selling on line was done. Cash in their left pocket was their income, cash in their right pocket was for payables and purchases. Anything left was profit.
We stayed 3 years and slowly built our online store. We worked our butts off to have booths, stocking it, dusting everything weekly, re-arranging everything weekly, a ton of work for about $8,000 annually. Now we do about $30,000 annually sitting in our pajamas, drinking coffee, inside our own home. Selling nline is using our brains and not our backs.
The mall owners always said to me that most booth sellers do it for the social aspects, visit with friends, enjoyed going to flea markets with their friends, and over all friendly activity of meeting at the mall and socializing daily and weekly. All the time, the owners were smiling all the way to the bank.
They also stated that not many sellers were on top of the numbers in such a business like way as I was and “jokedly” but still seriously, asked if I would not be so eager to discuss my “assumptions, revelations” they called it, to other dealers. Which I didn’t but I stated I doubted if many would understand what I was talking about anyway.
Another real life experience and learning lesson of this business and just my opinion…
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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@MDC: Excellent analysis as always Mike!
Reminds me of working a Long Drive competition once. Guys were flying in from all over the world to the Denver Qualifier. Dropping a chunk of change over and over and over for another round to try to qualify. I finally asked how many of these actually make a living at it. The answer? 10%
Playing poker in a casino, I have talked to many rounders and other leather butts. How many make a living at it? 10%
It is like a skewed Pareto distribution…
But so interesting how in many parts of life, that the Pareto distribution reveals itself. There is some law of nature to it. This is why I can understand how you have to commit to a craft and put everything into it to make a living at it.
You have to get to the top 10%…
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Mike, thanks for your long and thoughtful response and analysis. I agree with what you are saying. I have had booths at quite a few antique malls over the years and each and every time I always came to the conclusion that the mall was making much more of a profit than I was off my stuff. I generally did it to unload when I had volumes of vintage that needed to be turned and I never did it for any long length of time.
12 years ago I had two containers of antiques shipped over from England, with about 500 pieces of furniture and copious amounts of smalls. My partners and I decided to try the antique mall route with some of it with disappointing results. I too like to crunch numbers and I also came to the conclusion that most dealers in malls make little or no profit. I think in part they do it for fun and they like the thrill of the hunt and don’t really need the money…it’s more of a hobby. I have also heard that they see it as storage…instead of paying for storage they keep it in a mall.
Having said that, I do know a couple of dealers who make a good living using the mall approach, but one deals in high end mid century modern and the other in higher end farmhouse/cottage decor. You can start making a profit pretty easily when you are selling tables for $800 and chandeliers for $1200, even if you are paying a bit more for your inventory. You have to have the right eye and always be on the hunt.
I think the truth is somewhere in the middle. I wouldn’t be surprised that she is paying a premium price in the mall because Portland is such a hub for vintage and the mall is in a hip part of Portland. I still want to find out what the mall is charging, because my curiosity is piqued. The woman she was talking to was elderly and I can’t imagine that she saw her as competition, or at least fierce competition, but who knows.
“This is why I can understand how you have to commit to a craft and put everything into it to make a living at it.” – T-Satt Best quote of the day!
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I am so glad you posted this! I have been selling some furniture/ bulky items on FB marketplace and was just starting to look into booth space. I watched several you tubes/ read some articles. I think I am better off doing my Facebook marketplace system.
Agree with the “house always wins.” Around here antique malls are “something to do” in a tourist area and it skews WAY older. The coolest one in our city also requires? you do a shift at it – which, no thanks.
We have these vintage pop up events 1/ month weekend events in the old warehouse area of the city. They draw lots of shoppers and dealers. I wonder if anyone is making money at those. The crows are crazy, but is anyone shopping or just looking around and enjoying a mimosa ? I could see a Pop up event being a fun way to sell as opposed to a long term commitment.
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bcfol440—-I do quite well at the vintage pop up shows and switched over to doing them instead of mall spaces. There’s quite a few in Portland and the surrounding area. I’ve had a booth for many years at one in Oregon City in August. They shut down Main Street and line the streets with booths (set up time 5am!!!) and the diehard collectors are there are 5am with flashlights looking through your boxes as you unpack. That one attracts the true antique collectors and I can get great prices for things….they won’t blink at spending $60-80 for a cool old book. It’s fun and good money.
I don’t do as many as I used to, as I have been concentrating more on my online shops and the show I put on myself, so I now only do three a year because there’s only so much time and I am pulled in many directions, but I know quite a few people who do the pop-up vintage circuit and do tremendously well. The appeal is that they are fun events, not stodgy malls. The other that I participate in is called the Plucky Maiden Junkfest…..a summer show and a Christmas show. The show has been featured in national magazines and it’s hipster cool, with live music and alcohol served during.
I would suggest going to one of the events in your city and looking around. Watch to see what people are buying, if anything. If there’s lots of people walking around but nobody has anything in their hands, it’s a bad sign…but not the only sign. I am not sure that selling larger pieces of furniture would be the way to go at the pop-ups and I speak from experience. People might buy a stool or a chair, something easy to carry to their car, but not larger things. People will want to dicker, so be prepared for that. I tend to build in a 10-20% margin into my pricing at these events so I can easily come down a bit and still get what I want for the item. People also expect you to take Square, or the equivalent, as nobody carries around cash anymore. It’s well worth a try though….and let us know how it goes!
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Thank you for this. I keep hearing glowing testimonials from others at auctions about how much they make at the antique mall. I researched it and didn’t see how it would make sense. The online articles about “how to succeed at the antique mall” said you’ll mostly sell items under $10, not high dollar.
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I rent half a cabinet in an antique shop. I have a total “floor space” of three 12 inch by 12 inch shelves for which I pay £22.50 a calendar month. If there’s space the owners will display larger items elsewhere in the shop (e.g. the window) or keep them in the back room for dealers calling in.
I “guesstimate” the takings in total of the shop to be around £500 a day (this is a very rough guess- I get told on occasion how they’re doing). This isn’t an “antique mall” but part of a 14th century barn which is part of a complex of outbuildings converted into small shops, the whole owned by the lord of the manor, who lives in the hall next door. So there’s some inertia in upgrading facilities (because of historic buildings etc.) Think “quaint”!
Stuff that sells- mmm… dunno! I probably take about £75 a calendar month. It’s almost akin to gambling, with most of the sales low-quid stuff (that’s the UK equivalent of low-dollar) and the occasional big hit. The big hits being in the region of £20 to £30.
My takeaway from this (and this is not what I’m doing, since I can only get to the shop twice a month)- rotate and refresh the stock as often as you can. You’re selling to people who don’t know nothing about antiques, and to dealers who are looking for “cheap”, so it’s a good place to get rid of stock that’s got flaws- you’re not going to get returns or negative feedback, and you don’t have to pack the stuff. Also the people who are actually doing the selling are the store owners (or their staff) so you’re at their mercy.
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I think a lot of people are lacking in truthiness (lol) when they talk about their profits vs expenses in the resale business. I found the eBay stores of some of the regulars from my local auction house, and they are not making nearly as much in profit as what they’d like others to believe.
Like, ok, you sold that item for $60 plus shipping. But you bought it for $45. I was there when you bought it! Enjoy your $8.64 in profit after you deduct fees and shipping supplies. Yes, profit is profit, but this seems like a really grim way to run a business. I know I have a lot more to learn about selling on eBay (I am no where near the level of folks like Ryanne and Jay), but dang, I’d totally walk away from a deal where I am tying up $45 just to make 8 bucks because I know I can take $45 and turn it into $200-500 easily!
I dunno. People are strange!
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