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Seriously, I have stuff on shelves in corners that I never think to sell. This jar has been on a shelf in the basement for 15 years, passed down through several generations of the family (yes, my own, not an estate sale)
Randomly typed in apothecary jar, and, pardon the language, “WTF”
So, mine is about 2/3 the size of the one that sold, best offer was accepted so not entirely sure how much it actually went for, but looks like this would be better to LIST than donate…
My question? How the heck do I prove anything about this? Does the manufacturer matter? no labels or marks.
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They paid $900. To find the offer price use this tool:
http://www.flippertools.com/tools/ebayOfferHistory/ebay-best-offer-actual-price.htmFor that kind of money, you might want to find an expert that can authenticate it, unless someone here or elsewhere online can help you with it.
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I would offer that if it is one of those special pieces with no real identifiers but worth some money, you may want to get a professional (who can see it up close) to appraise it. Even it someone in here knows alot, if they can not actually see it in order to appraise it, I would not think their opinion would hold much weight if the validity of it gets called into question by a buyer.
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Or just list it and price high. Be honest with what you know. Collectors can fill in the blanks.
I dont understand why it would beed to get authenticated. (Are there official candy jar authenticators???) The listing that sold has zero info on it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-24-Dakota-Banjo-APOTHECARY-CANDY-DISPLAY-JAR-Soda-Fountain-Drug-Store-/202245421906
Keep it simple.
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Jay,
There are people who specialize in glass art and art in general, so they would know markers that would be tell tale signs that the item is real and not a recreation. The sold listing you provided leaves alot of questions. I wonder what happened after purchasing the item? If I was buying something for a large amount of money like $1200.00, I sure would want to know it was authentic and not a knock off.
Let’s say the buyer gets the item home and starts looking for identifiers (as many collectors would) and there are none. What then? Either they rely on their own knowledge and assume that what they bought is authentic or they call and complain and possibly claim fraud.
Would you buy something for hundreds or thousands of dollars and assume its authenticity simply because someone sold it to as an authentic piece although there were no identifiers making it so?
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Uh, I think you’re overthinking this. Do you “authenticate” everything you sell?
Plus getting items actually authenticated is expensive. Experts charge for the service to give you documents. If you mean take it to some old guy at an antique mall, then that’s not helpful. That’s just some old guy’s advice. All your worries in your comment about a buyer not believing you stand true.
All you do is say “here’s this piece of glass, here are pictures, this is how much I want”. That’s eBay.
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Yes Jay,
Ebay can be that simple. But if the seller is using an item specificier as a selling point, it would be good to know that the item being sold matches the specifier. If the seller chose to do it the way you say, that is a different story.
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I can’t tell if you really don’t know the answer, but I assure you that tens of thousands of items are being sold everyday on eBay without official authentication. It’s a free market where the buyer can make a decision if they want to buy based on info presented.
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AdventureE wrote:
Jay,
I am not sure what you mean by “I can’t tell if you really don’t know the answer”.
Yes, it is a free market where sellers list their items and buyers are free to choose what they want to buy.
All it takes is one claim of fraud or a buyer keeping a valued item and sending back something else to put a seller in a bad place/light. A seller having a claim of fraud obviously hurts them in various ways. In addition, if a buyer should keep a valued item and send one back that is similar in nature and without labels, the seller will be left having to some how verify what they actually sold and its authenticity. Anyone of us can claim anything we have is anything we want it to be (which actually occurs on the free market and causes many buyers to be leary of buying online).
As you know, fraud does occur with both buyers and sellers and is actually on the rise. While some would like to down play fraud and buyer abuse, there are various sources identifiying that it is on the rise especially in the ecommerce world. There are entire teams dedicated to fighting fraud in various arenas.
While it would be nice to live in the world where everyone was honest and upfront, we do not live in that world. Many sellers take many liberties on what they sell, it does not necessarily make it ok or truthful. Moreover, when it comes to things like art, there is an entire art black market where many things look real/authentic but are not.
Personally, I look for labels. I recently found a vintage item I was about to walk away from until I inspected it closer to find the original paperwork and box verifying its validity. When I list it, I will be able to confidantly say that it is an original and vintage with the paperwork to back it up.
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Labels/identifiers are my goal when sourcing and/or listing and are what I focus on. If something does not have a label, I will simply name what it is and put the title of what I think it is at the end with a question mark.
For example, if I find a piece of art (a painting) and I know it is by such and such but the markings have come off, I would name the piece of art- flowers in a basket painting by such and such? -
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thanks, I really appreciate the advice! Might be worth dropping by an antique store , if the guy behind the counter drools, I’ll get an idea.
But, knowing myself, always lazy. It will be better if it just gets listed.
Because I have nothing in it and would love to see some fun, it might be a good auction candidate. Of course, I’m old school, probably start at $50 and watch the fun. if it sells for more than that, I’ll be happy!
But I hate the “real” antique world, seriously, I’ll take a label or a marking over an experts opinion anyday.
seriously, thanks.
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There are five listed on worthpoint. You can see the phtos and read descriptions, which may help but not the prices. The lowest one is $250 and the highest is $2,167 it is 23-1/2″ high.
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If it has been passed down through generations of your family you KNOW it is authentic. I think that is pretty good providence. If a buyer gets it and think it is a fake the burden would be on them to return it or prove it.
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This has been a fascinating discussion, again, thanks very much. Since I do have the “provenance” at least going back 50 – 60 years, pretty confident it is real. Whether or not it is actually from the company mentioned in the high price auction, who knows. Doubt that receipt is still around.
Was so proud to use imgur for the first time…
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This is almost certainly authentic.
To answer Jay’s question above yes, an experienced antique glass dealer could authenticate this fairly quickly, most likely with a gratis inspection. Thickness, mold seams, size, color, pattern, overall quality can tell the tale. Knowledge of known fakes/reproductions and fantasy pieces floating around the market also add clues.
In this category, Jay is right in that being honest about what you know with clear pictures of top lip, stopper, base, mold seams and pattern will give the players all they need to know. Simply state that you “guarantee authenticity” with confidence. You’ll be fine. Nice item!
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I would expect that most buyers paying big money for an item would have an idea of the features expected in an authentic piece and, if not explicitly detailed in the listing, would ask for supporting evidence like specific photos. And it might well be a case where the collector community would contact you with questions or suggestions.
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And is it just me, or are there fewer “enthusiast” websites than at the dawn of the internet. My impression of the internet ca 1996 is of numberless pages of minutia about peoples obsessions. Where’s the web page about Dakota Glassworks in Comic Sans?
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I’m not sure if this conversation has run its course or not, but for many, many items there is literally no way to get them authenticated. There is no certifying board, no organization, no person you can pay to certify/grade your piece. You can research your item and sometimes learn, for example, that a true first edition of a book will have an “A” in the gutter on page 100, or that the first run of a certain type of porcelain was marked “made in England” while subsequent runs were made in Portugal or China, but there’s not necessarily a third party “authenticator” to provide you with a Certificate of Authenticity.
Furthermore, labels and marks can be faked. “Tiffany” is sometimes etched into the bottom of art glass by other companies. Labels can be removed from one piece and glued to another. Signatures can be written or painted on later. Alternatively, identifying labels can be removed and now-unlabled items attributed to other makers/companies.
On a related note, eBay is totally awash in deliberately misattributed art. I have a whole side project going about it. But there are many sellers who are either creating works themselves or ordering them wholesale and offering them for sale as the work of listed artists. The listings are carefully worded to create the appearance of authenticity and valid attribution, but in the end all they actually say is that the painting is a painting (which it is) and that it’s signed with the name of a famous artist (which it is.) So they stay on the right side of eBay’s rules about fakes and forgeries.
I think if the OP puts in all the careful measurements and includes tons of great photos, the collecting community can decide for itself if the item is good or not.
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And I agree also. AdvenE asked me yesterday to outline what we use when we are looking at artwork.
The answer would be just so long and detailed for a blog. Art Historians specialize in this type of serious certification – validation, chemical test, carbon analysis of the materials, wood test, aging tests, black light testing, harware and even rust testing on the hardware. That is museum level work by specialist that study a specific artists brush stroke patterns, etc., etc.But for everyday type of stuff we just go on my background and experience which is a little bit more than the average guy off the street and that is enough for us. Prints, plates, technique, paper weights, water marks, and canvass info. On the sculpture, glass and or 3-D pieces he asked about. There are some tell tale signs, and reading books and Kovels.com has helped. We have a nice library of reference books. So basically a good education in the areas of interst and specilaty.
The rest is just as you both have said, good photos, good descriptions, maybe even a little more verbose or detailed than usual and then sell it and ship it. With Hassle Free Returns the buyer is off the hook, even if they don’t like the color, which ya’ll know is a subject I have commented on in detail on SL before.
Even the high end art houses like Sotheby’s in New York and Paris have sold works that turned out later on to be forgeries. this Ebay.
And with China and the wide format Giclee printers out there it is darn hard to tell the difference these days, Even fake hundred dollar bills are getting made very easily.So yep.. to bed this one must go I think. Just way to many ways to knock off up or repro.
mike
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And gain I say thanks for the info. As an avowed over describer, I can say it has been in the family for over 50 years, extensive measurements and might go so far as to say that it appears to be in a pattern attributed to Dakota.
Just shocked by the sold research and wondered about the Dakota name.
subject closed until it is listed and sold. !
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