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When it rains…just this week
This is an active case. I sometimes dabble in some high end photography gear and accessories. Something that I find almost free to me that I can make a ton of profit on is empty boxes. A collector or another reseller will need these to combine with their product to make it “complete” and add value to it. I sold an empty camera lens box to somebody in Greece, and they opened a NAD case indicating that I sent them a parcel containing an empty box. Of course I did! Not a big sale, but the GSP shipping was a little bit more than the value of the box itself. I reached out to anchor support, and expected them to close the case immediately since the item’s title, description, and photograph all clearly showed what was being sold was an empty box. Not to mention the fact that they were expecting a $500 camera lens for peanuts. The rep that I communicated with told me that they would escalate the case if I didn’t accept the return. Tried a second time, another rep urged me to accept the return. Oy vey…not sure how much time or effort to expend since this doesn’t involve much money or an item that I necessarily have to have back.
I closed this second request as soon as I got it, I thought I was doing the buyer a favor. I sold a vintage VCR for parts or repair for a good price, the going rate for a doorstop. “No returns” selected on this item. Buyer received and opened a request, stating that they changed their mind and don’t know how to repair this model. The big problem is that they were in Washington state, and I am in Pennsylvania. They paid just as much in shipping as they did for the item. To return it they would essentially double their shipping fee, paying both ways. The refund that I would give would only offset one of those fees. I pointed this out in a message, that I was basically saving the buyer some cash, and then denied the return a few hours later. The next day I got a case of nasty feedback for that. I reached out to anchor support, and at first was told that they couldn’t do anything since the feedback reflected the negative experience that the buyer felt. Nevertheless, I persisted, and after further communication they removed the negative. I kind of wanted to just leave it since it was so ridiculous, but I couldn’t adequately defend myself in the 75 characters that ebay allows in response to feedback. received
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In my experience, the only way to successfully fight an INAD return is to first accept the return, and then escalate once you’ve received the item back. Yes, that’s ridiculous in this case of the empty box, but it seems to be the way ebay works. But I’ve never had an international return, so I don’t know how return shipping gets handled.
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In our experience, when selling empty boxes or broken items, we always need to be very clear what the buyer is getting.
In the title we put in bold: “BOX ONLY” or “FOR PARTS”. We used to just put that stuff in the description until we had issues as you describe up above.
Once we put those words in bold, eBay has backed us up on any case a buyer opened since the condition is so clear. How did you signify the issues with these items?
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The empty box was cleanly titled BOX ONLY. In the brief details field just below the price it read EMPTY BOX ONLY. The photo showed an empty box. The description also was clear. The price point also should have been an indicator. Today is the day that it is scheduled to escalate. I’m not going to accept the return. In the chance that Ebay rules against me I’ll fight it further. Seems like a waste of time. Thanks for providing the forum to vent.
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Understood. I didn’t mean to imply you had done something wrong, but I know we had an issue once because we did not make it clear. Im surprised eBay reps let them make an INAD claim if you were so obvious about the condition.
I agree that it’s just a mater of fining a CS rep that knows their own rules!
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So I did not accept the return by the deadline, expecting the case to be escalated and hopefully found in my favor. I did message the buyer pointing out that their reason for return was incorrect, and they disputed that, saying that they expected what was originally inside of the box. As I expected…
I received the following response from Anchor Support, which seems to indicate some type of policy change, and not really helpful. I guess that at this point I’ll employ the ignore and stall technique, and if eBay eventually rules against me I’ll appeal.
“Hello Matt,
I hope you’re having a wonderful day. My name is Kristen and I am reaching out to you in regards to the return (*********) opened by the buyer ****** for the item ****************************** (item number : ******************). We know how frustrating it can be when a buyer opens a return, so I’m more than happy to look into this for you.
As the buyer is claiming the item is not as described, we need to see that you are working with them to have the item sent back to you. The buyer is claiming that they thought there was to be something included in the box.
In the past if we saw any sort of remorse in the member-to-member messages, we had to capability of forcing the return and making the buyer pay for return shipping. We no longer have the capability to do so, and so there are some new steps to take going forward. If a buyer opens a return and chooses a not as described reason, but then claims buyers remorse in their description of the return, it is now the seller’s responsibility to work with the buyer and help them understand why they have to pay for return shipping. We believe that having the seller and buyer work together is a better overall experience, because it triggers communication between the two parties. In the past, eBay stepped in and forcing the returns provided a really negative experience for the buyers. We are trying to change this going forward, and so we are asking for our sellers help. Please follow the above steps in order to continue with this transaction.
I know this may not have been the answer you were looking for today, but I hope that I have explained everything thoroughly. If you have further questions; let us know. I appreciate all the hard work you have put in over the years to grow your business and provide great buying experiences.
Thanks,
Kristen M.
eBay Merchant Support”
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I don’t think is is a good strategy. If you ignore the return request and eBay has to step in, then eBay will almost certainly rule in the buyers favor. eBay is telling you not to ignore the buyer, so they’ll punish you if you do.
We always accept the return, then refund the buyer for the price of the item (not the shipping cost). The buyer can then open a case to get their shipping. At this point, we can call eBay and dispute the reason for the reason. eBay sees we immediately accepted the return and just need them to see the reason was buyer’s remorse. Works 90% of the time for us.
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What am I missing? It looks like ebay is telling me that if I accept the return, I am responsible for the shipping costs. This is what I see when I click on “accept the return”
“Provide a return shipping label or postage to the buyer via email. You are responsible for the shipping cost. Wait to get the item back before you refund the buyer.”
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Good point, I shouldn’t ignore. Regarding eBay’s response, there is no way that I am going to convince this buyer that they are wrong, their previous correspondence has indicated as much. I accepted the return, and since it was a foreign sale, I don’t have the capacity to offer a return label. It is now up to the buyer to return on their dime and compel me to reimburse them. If I was a conspiracy theorist, the language used by the Anchor Rep in the message above would lead me believe that they are looking to nudge sellers to choose free returns.
I actually have selected free returns on most of my new listings (lightweight low shipping cost items) since the Spring Seller Update. So hypothetically, had this item in question been sold domestically, a return would have been automatic and I wouldn’t have cared less. But man, when you sell a man an orange, and they tell you that you sold them an apple and there is no convincing them otherwise…such is scavenging, and such is life.
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This is a Not As Described return, so the seller has to assume the cost of return. You can then fight it once the box comes back. I am sure this is very frustrating for you, but I would offer that if your listing was accurate and you sent what you said was going to be sent, accept the return (which means paying for the return label), and then call ebay once it arrives and calmly and professionally review the matter of getting back the return shipping cost. I would offer that the longer you drag this out, the less time you have for other important things in your life.
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