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I listened to the recent ebay webinar on returns (though not the Q&A portion.). The ebay speaker briefly mentioned seller protections, but implied that the subject would be addressed in another webinar after details about seller protection are released in the near future.
Here’s my guess: the next Seller Release (unless they’ve pushed it back) will be issued by the end of this month and it will include more details about the seller protection aspect of the new returns. I think that’s when we’ll get some clearer answers on some of this.
You are correct about seller determined partial refunds for items returned unsealed etc. That is a carrot to offer free returns, and applies ONLY to free returns. ebay will monitor both buyers and sellers for abuse of that. I’m pretty sure any seller who starts refunding only the bare 50% minimum allowed will find his account flagged. basically ebay is saying we will trust you to determine the percentage of the refund, and that you will administer your returns fairly. But in Reagan terms: yes, we will trust, but we will Trust and Verify LOL
IF the buyer is not satisfied with the percentage he gets from the seller, that is then between the buyer and ebay. ebay may or may not provide an additional refund to the buyer. Either way, the seller is not actually involved in any of that.
So, that’s the carrot. The stick seems to be: Item has been unsealed, and you have No free returns? You must issue a full refund and then you can take it up with ebay and hope for the best (and maybe risk a defect if you lose) This is where we need clarity, which hopefully will be coming by the end of the month.
We also need it on this situation: item comes back in a totally worthless condition, no way to salvage it for resale. If you offer free returns, you can issue a 50% refund, but really, it should be zero. I believe what ebay has said is, in that case, you can contact ebay to argue your case. But again, we need details on how this would work, and whether you risk a defect (or whatever they call it these days) if ebay sides with the buyer.
As I’ve often said, I went to free returns a few years ago, so to me, this 50% thing is just a bonus, but for others, it’s designed as an incentive. I saw the handwriting on the wall a few years ago, and figured ebay would eventually provide some incentives to offer free returns. I’d also assume they’ll offer disincentives for non-free returns. ebay isn’t going to REQUIRE sellers to offer free returns, but they are going to try to make it the sensible thing to do through their bananas and sticks.
05/19/2018 at 11:38 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40438lady, If I thought, as you do, that the “changes coming and the direction they have laid out” is “prioritizing to big retail and new products” then, yes, I’d say the handwriting is on the wall, small sellers of used stuff are going to be herded to the exit.
The problem I have is, I have been following the “changes coming” as I’ve said, since before the first product page even appeared on the site. NONE of this is news to me. ebay has been talking about this stuff and ebay’s direction pretty much since Wenig took over. And I’ve been watching ebay implement the changes. I will be the first to say the implementation has been rocky, no question. And I expect it will continue to be. We simply disagree about the direction ebay is heading in. I do NOT see product pages as a step towards the elimination of used stuff / small sellers. I do NOT see adding some brands as a step in the elimination of small sellers, anymore than I see ebay’s pilot program in Akron as a move to push out brands and replace them with small B&M businesses.
I’ve listened to Wenig talk about brands. brands are not, say, Target. Target is a retailer (and, by the way, recently left eBay…and Wenig basically said he was fine with that. Brands are things like Nike or Ralph Lauren. Wenig has pointed out that brands have actually been seeking our ebay in part because they can no longer depend on their old B&M mainstays, such as Sears and Penneys etc. So, online and ebay begins to make sense for them, especially if ebay can help them scale. But ebay would be creating product pages even if not a single brand was boarding the ebay train. The main reason to do it is, as sonia noted, the simple fact that the amount of inventory on ebay long ago exceeded a regular old fashioned search. Wenig has stated ebay should have started product pages years before he took over. He’s right about that. eBay is now playing catch up. Over the years, ebay has tried all sorts of things to improve organic search, with , in my view, minimal success) largely because they wanted to avoid the expense of creating a catalog of pretty much everything. They can’t dodge it anymore.
There is NOTHING inherent in the product page concept which relegates used to no man’s land. The example I gave above, of the book….used and new are both available there, and why wouldn’t they be? Why on earth would ebay not want used there, when ebay knows many buyers prefer to buy used?
I think you are misunderstanding what ebay means when it talks about “new” items as the first to get product pages.. ebay is beginning with new items because there’s more data available for them. So, newer products are the ones getting most of the first product pages…but if a used product has a UPC or ISBN for example, it will be on the product page. “new” is less about condition and more about “new enough to have readily available product date and PINs) There’s simply nothing about product pages that is designed to exclude used items. Have you never shopped for a book on Amazon? Find the book in search, go to the product page, and choose new or used. Same idea. The page is for that book, new or used. On ebay, you can add, fixed price or auction, make offer and no make offer, etc.
But there is NOTHING about this that excludes used.
And brands? Again, its NOT a zero sum game. there is nothing about bringing on brands that means small sellers will get the ax. It just means ebay will include brands AND small sellers and all the variations in between. Which, in fact, is the way it is now.
I sell books on Amazon. I’m a tiny seller there. There are huge book sellers there, not to mention Amazon itself. We all co-exist. I sell a variety of stuff on ebay, including some books. There are huge book sellers here. We co-exist. Again, there’s NOTHING that says small and large sellers can’t co-exist. ebay has no interest in becoming nothing but brands or nothing but new.
Does ebay often emphasize the availability of new fixed price stuff in its marketing? Yes. But that is in part because there are still many many people who have never discovered that ebay has new fixed price stuff. It’s amazing how many still believe ebay is all auctions, or all used stuff. If they want that stuff, they are probably already here. If they want new stuff, they need to be told the stuff is here.
But what I see in ebay’s future (unless it is sold or what have you) is: small and large sellers, new and used, auction and fixed price. Same as it has been for years now. I’m not sure why you are convinced that they can’t co-exist, or why you are convinced ebay doesn’t want used just because ebay is shifting to a product based search experience. No question it’s a rocky transition and takes some extra work for me as a seller, but that’s not new either.
OK, having said all that, let me ask you. The ultimate conclusion you have come to is : we all should have a back up plan. As I’ve said, I agree, although I see that as just good business, rather than an imperative brought on by these changes. But what other practical advice have you got? Other than: keep selling but prepare a back up plan (and, maybe, diversify now, which I also think can be simple good business), what is it you think we should be doing? As for me, I’ll continue to stumble along, adapting as needed, and will depart if necessary but otherwise, just keep on keepin on.
05/19/2018 at 10:07 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40430lady, the odds that I’m going to change your mind on this, or you change mine: pretty darn small. Have a back up plan. Do it because you fear ebay’s supposed direction, or do it because its just good business. Not sure how useful the rest of this discussion really is. I think your idea to revisit this in a few years is a good one.
05/19/2018 at 10:02 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40429lady, Not sure why you think my interpretation is based on fear. Fear has nothing to do with it. As I’ve said, I’ve listened to the same thing many many times before. Almost the exact same words…”Look, here’s the head of ebay TELLING you this! Why can’t you see it???”
Well, because that’s NOT what he’s telling me. In this case: Brands and small sellers can co-exist. ESPECIALLY small sellers of used and old stuff, since we don’t directly compete with the brands on most of what we sell, we supplement their selection instead. Amazon is huge but it continues to co-exist with small sellers. I just don’t get this assumption that a site that has had the two together for more than 20 years somehow can’t continue to do so.
In the same spring seller release in which ebay has pushed product pages, ebay set up the mini stores (or whatever they call them) for small sellers. Really small sellers. In the Akron Ohio area, ebay has set up a pilot program to bring small B&M business owners, including some selling used items, onto ebay. It is a program ebay may extend to a lot of other small cities and towns. It isn’t all about bringing on big brands. ebay, in my opinion, wants BOTH.
Right now product pages are focused on new stuff that comes with UPCs or other PINs. Why? Because , as complex as that is, it’s low hanging fruit compared to developing a catalog for the old stuff.
Amazon is the king of online catalogs. Did you know years ago Amazon had auctions? They gave up, and a few years after that an Amazon exec said the auctions were actually doing pretty well, but said Amazon is basically a catalog business, and they couldn’t figure out how to catalog all that old stuff onto the site. They decided not to try and canned auctions. ebay is the only company I know that is planning on taking a stab at it. If they can pull it off, instead of being a place without old stuff, ebay would probably become very attractive to sellers , and buyers, of old stuff.
And again, I’ll just say about Wenig. I listened to his actual talk, I’m not relying on the writer’s interpretation and his selective quotes. For years now I’ve listened to nearly every one of the quarterly conference calls ebay makes with stock analysts. Like I said, we can agree to disagree on where ebay is headed. We agree sellers should have back up plans, regardless of where ebay is headed. I’d say that’s good advice for everyone.
05/19/2018 at 9:41 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40427sonia, your Merrell boots would show up on the product page, which would show new and used for the same style boot.
here’s a product page for a book:
Note that while it doesn’t have used books at the top, scroll part way down and you see “all” listings, and on the right: “Any condition” with a drop down which allows you to see either new or used.
Not all product pages have the exact same layout, but they are not confined to new, nor do they show you only three or four of the item.
They are far from perfect, and we must remember they are a work in progress. As a seller, I find they can be frustrating because it isn’t always obvious how to get one’s item onto the page. (new stuff with UPCs, pretty easy, but there are ways—sometimes—to do it with older stuff too) So, as I said, the roll out is causing unhappiness as usual. But I just don’t see this as something designed to kill off used or old stuff.
05/19/2018 at 9:05 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40420Sonia, Agree. What I’ve seen over the years is a tendency by some sellers to view everything as some sort of zero sum situation: either ebay goes with new, or goes with old, but it won’t do both. So, when ebay created something new called ebay stores, the sellers who were using auctions started claiming that ebay was going to eliminate auctions. I remember people claiming things like “Mark my words! There won’t be auctions by next year!” This sort of thing has happened so often that it just seems to be an almost inevitable reaction. ebay brings on “Daily Deals”? ebay only wants big sellers who can afford to sell tons of stuff for cheap prices! They don’t want the little guy anymore!
I could give example after example of this sort of thing. to me, ebay brings on brands or ebay creates product pages is the same thing….it must mean ebay wants to crowd us out!
I just don’t see it.
ebay’s own history shows that it has adapted, sometimes clumsily, sometimes belatedly, but through all that, it has managed to retain auctions and fixed price, small and large sellers, and new and old stuff…despite the repeated claims by some sellers at each step of the way that ebay was going to eliminate one or the other.
As far as product pages go, it is going to be a slow gradual process….much of our stuff, the vintage stuf etc, will be at the tail end of the process. In the meantime, the problem isn’t that ebay wants to squeeze us out, it’s that trying to create this is very complex and it is going to be—and already is—a bumpy road. The concept as you note, is valid, even necessary. But eBay’s execution—that’s where we—small sellers, large sellers, sellers of new and old— feel the pain.
05/19/2018 at 8:10 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40410I must say, I take some satisfaction from the fact that the listing I put up earlier, the one that didn’t make it onto the Product Page? It just sold — So ebay, you can take your vaunted product page and…LOL
05/19/2018 at 7:47 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40407Ah, OK, yes, I read that article when it first came out, but I had first listened to the actual Wenig speech. The article, as I recall, was not “just the facts” but the article writer’s spin on what Wenig was saying. What I remember (and I didn’t re-read it just now, I’ve got to get some listings up LOL) is that, having listened to the actual talk, I found myself disagreeing with many of the writer’s conclusions. We listened to the same speech but apparently we heard different things LOL
05/19/2018 at 7:43 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40405Thanks, Adventure, I remember reading that back when it came out. Nothing you directed me to makes me think ebay wants to get rid of small sellers. Going to go read your linked Wenig article, although I think I may have also read that before too.
05/19/2018 at 7:36 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40403Mark, Agreed. Years ago I sold at flea markets and antique malls. Both can close down for any number of reasons. Finding a new place can take time and effort, but there’s always some place, because the demand for the stuff is still there. Same thing with ecommerce.
The demand for some things I sell has either gone down on gone away, but fortunately the demand for other things has increased. So I manage.
05/19/2018 at 7:19 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40398anything in particular you want to highlight from the report?
05/19/2018 at 6:51 pm in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40391lady, Like I said, we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I get what you are saying, I just don’t draw the conclusion you are drawing. A bit ago I listed something (won’t bore you with the details) and the item I listed didn’t show up on the Product page. I made a change and hope it will, but won’t know till ebay cycles through its cycle or whatever. So, yeah, the product page thing is a hugely complex undertaking and eBay has stuff screwed up right and left. This isn’t the first time some of my stuff hasn’t shown up even though it should. It IS frustrating, yes.
But do I think I’m going to be squeezed out of ebay? No. I’m going to try to do what I always do, which is adapt.
But look, you are basically saying, the writing is on the wall, ebay wants us gone and whether they just ax us by fiat one day or by attrition, we should all have a back up plan.
I don’t agree with your underlying premise, but I agree…have for a very long time…that a back up plan is a good idea. If your fear that Wenig wants you gone prompts you to create a back up plan, well, that’s a good thing, because you should have one whether Wenig wants you gone or not. Which is why I see little reason to try to convince you you are wrong. It’s not like a back up plan is a bad idea. There are lots o reasons to have a back up plan, and I would never try to talk someone out of having one. I just don’t agree with your interpretation of where this stuff is headed. Like I said, I’ve seen lots of changes at ebay over the years, and I’ve seen lots of people interpreting them as you are interpreting this one. They’ve been wrong. I suspect you are, too. But only time will tell.
Setting aside my views on Wenig and small sellers of used stuff, no matter what ebay does going forward, I think the competition to ATTRACT small sellers is just going to heat up. Not just etsy, but Facebook Marketplace, Poshmark and all the other niche apps…eventually, it might not matter what Wenig wants or what he is trying to do…small sellers may go elsewhere. I don’t see us being pushed out, but it’s possible we’ll be pulled out, if that makes sense?
So, yep, have a back up plan. That is one thing we don’t need to argue about LOL
05/19/2018 at 11:48 am in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40368lady, thanks for the reply. I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I’ve been following the development of product based search since it began, when it was just a gleam in Wenig’s eye, before there was a single product pages even on ebay.. I’ve also watched Wenig work to bring on brands. I’ve also seen him set up the initiative in Akron to bring on small B&M sellers. I’m convinced ebay wants both because both are important to ebay’s future. I haven’t seen Wenig do or say anything to convince me otherwise.
Product Search is a HUGELY complex undertaking. And yes, as a seller I realize I’ve got to learn to adapt to it. And believe me, I realize it is far from perfect…it will be a long time before its extended to everything (including Pyrex) and probably an even longer time before its extended to everything and done right (or at least close to right…even Amazon, which has had a form of product based search since it began, has problems.)
What you are saying, about Wenig chasing brands and so forth? As i said, people have been saying that since Donahoe’s time, hell, since before Donahoe. When ebay, years ago, first brought on “Diamond Sellers” to the platform, people were saying; “There! That’s it! They are going to get rid of us!”
For that matter, I was on ebay when ebay first started ebay stores. “That’s it! ebay doesn’t want ANY auctions anymore! ebay doesn’t want small sellers! It’s all over for us!”
I’ve never really understood this, except as a kind of kneejerk fear. Amazon added category after category and I didn’t hear Amazon sellers say : Well, they’re going to get rid of books! They don’t want books anymore, they only want TVs! Amazon brought on huge third party sellers—sure, it impacted small sellers, but Amazon didn’t get rid of small sellers.
I think the main difference between our opinions: you seem to believe that Wenig can’t conceive of a site that sells both new and used products, or a site that has both large and small sellers. Yet ebay has been that way for years, and there’s no reason for it not to continue that way.
Look, I would LOVE to see ebay put more emphasis on our type of stuff. I would LOVE to see ebay do more with small sellers in mind. But every business has to prioritize, and right now, ebay has to focus on the part of its business that represents its a major revenue source. And that ain’t us. Hasn’t been for a long time. But that doesn’t mean ebay wants to ditch us.
We’re both just reading the tea leaves. Maybe you’re right, but for at least 15 years, in the face of people saying what you are saying: Look at this change! That proves ebay wants to get rid of us! I’ve been saying, No, that’s wrong.
So far, I’ve been right, and the doomsayers have been, repeatedly, wrong. When I see something that changes my mind, I’ll be the first to post.
05/19/2018 at 10:00 am in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40360T-Salt, I’ve had about 20 years on ebay. For at least the last 15, ebay has been getting rid of old stuff/small sellers (take your pick) according to someone somewhere pretty much every day. (For that matter, for even longer, sellers have been predicting the imminent demise of ebay.)
05/19/2018 at 9:38 am in reply to: New Catalog Based Search & Ebay's Re-Structured Business Model Plans #40358aperture, To answer your question: Absolutely not. ebay has been discussing this for some years now, ever since they started asking us for UPCs etc. This is not some stealth thing, and it is NOT designed to eliminate old stuff from the site. And I must say, I disagree with lady in red’s assessment, that the ultimate goal is to squeeze that stuff off the site. Again, absolutely not. (The guy who heads up the Arts and Collectibles vertical at ebay recently noted that A&C (which includes about 14 actual “ebay categories”) had its best year ever last year.)
ebay recognizes that, even if revenue from sales of old stuff is a relatively small proportion of ebays total revenues , it is an important, even vital, attractor and a way to distinguish ebay from competitors such as WalMart. Old pyrex isn’t going to be tossed out.
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