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03/18/2019 at 5:19 pm in reply to: Promoted Listings Trending Rates – 16.4% for Collectibles!? #58903
The way to think about PLs is really pretty much the way to think about your listings in general: use best practices. Good photos, good title, item specifics, etc. All the stuff we already know. And go with a PL fee YOU are happy with. I’ve sold stuff on PL with as low as a 1% fee.
Also, keep in mind that ebay doesn’t just look at the seller and his/her listing, PL also looks at the buyer. If a buyer has a long buying history on ebay, and ebay concludes from that history that the buyer is very partial to free shipping, then a PL listing with free shipping might trump one without it, even if all other factors are the same.
So, trying to “game” PL is mostly a waste of time.
For me, if PL listings only showed up on the search results page I wouldn’t bother with PL at all, because my stuff is mostly oddball/uncommon enough to show on the first page of a fairly narrowly defined search as it is. Where I think I benefit is : PLs show up on other pages as well, and ebay has hinted that they aren’t afraid to show a buyer something that is not exactly what the buyer is looking for, but something ebay’s algo thinks the buyer would buy if the buyer only knew it existed. I suspect, but have no way to prove, that the non search results pages are the ones that fuel my PL sales.
My margins are generally high enough that I have room to do make offers, run sales, or do PLs. Sure, I’d always like to get top dollar, but there are times when I’m just happy to make a good sale, even if I’m trimming my potential net profit a little. I don’t raise my prices before starting a PL, and I don’t do it before running a sale. But again, that’s me, I know many sellers have much tighter margins. I just sold a hat for about $100…it was on sale in my store (17% off for March 17th, St Paddy’s Day). It sold as a PL, so I not only gave the buyer a discount but paid ebay a little more. Still, the hat cost me a buck at a church rummage sale. With stuff like that, I’ve got plenty of room to play around. Of course, my margins aren’t THAT great on most stuff, but like I say, I usually have wiggle room.
I’ve seen a lot of sellers post about their PL “tests”, with both good and bad results, but the only basically “scientific” test I’ve seen done (admittedly with eBay’s cooperation, so dismiss it if you want to) is the one by a third party vendor on Tamebay. I’ll try to find the link later when I get a chance.
03/17/2019 at 8:08 pm in reply to: Promoted Listings Trending Rates – 16.4% for Collectibles!? #58802I’ve been revising listings lately, and have seen trending rates both decline and increase from where they had been. Pretty sure some of the items I revised were in Collectibles cat and the subcat was no where near that high. I’m not sure, but I think ebay’s “trending rates” by category is some sort of average across sub cats, and I’ve found it to be meaningless for specific items.
Part of the problem is, some ebay sellers are absolutely convinced that having the highest rate provides top placement. Some sellers have said they increase their item price to cover the high rate. This is folly, but some sellers insist it is the way PL works.
It isn’t, unless PL has changed drastically, and I see no real reason to think it has… The rate you choose is not the most important thing. As I’ve explained before, the PL team is judged on how well the listings they choose to promote, actually convert. Let’s say we both have the same item, and we both put it in PL, the only two sellers to do so. A fair selling price, based on past history, is, say, $20.00. I price mine at $20.00 and set a PL fee of 4% You price yours at $40.00 and set a PL fee of 50%. According to some sellers, that should guarantee them the prime spot, because they believe ebay wants to collect the highest fee. But my PL will probably be top spot, why? Because ebay does indeed want money, and 4% of $20 is better more than 50% of zero My item, at a reasonable price, has a much better chance of selling than the way overpriced one. So mine goes to the top, because its all about making the sale, not which listing has the highest PL fee.
I’m oversimplifying the factors involved, but this is a case of sellers being their own worst enemies, convinced that a really high PL fee allows them to game the system. But it’s just self defeating.
I haven’t run into that. Seems like the Law of Unintended Consequences at work…
I was thrifting before thrifting was cool LOL And yes, I remember stinky thrifts, homeless guys wandering in and using the aisles as a bathroom, and so forth. Most thrifts are far more like a retail store these days (and many are in “better” neighborhoods.) I recall years ago, advising a college girl to hit the thrifts and she asked me “But don’t I need a card?, like Welfare people have?”
But I think the rise of ebay and online selling generally, along with the rise of all the home decor shows and magazines and blogs…..those factors have made “thrifting” a perfectly acceptable activity for many people. Same is true of yard saleing. When I first started going to yard sales around here…which didn’t even exist around here when I was really young…..it was mostly me, my brother and a lot of grandmas looking for stuff for their grandkids.
And flea markets? They were primarily the domain of old guys looking for tools, grandmas looking for more stuff for the grandkids, hard core antiquers, and people like me, who hunted for stuff I liked that most people didn’t care about. For a couple summers I often took a friend along, a gal who hunted up vintage clothing and oddball stuff. I knew flea markets were becoming legit when , some years later, she was being profiled in magazine articles praising her eye for style (by then she was working as an assistant to a big name designer in New York).
So, the whole thing has changed dramatically. We were kind of oddballs back then, but now, it seems to be America’s favorite pastime.
Sometimes I miss those days…mostly because there was a lot more great stuff available and a lot less competition. But, it is what it is LOL
Also, if I were the buyer, while it’s too late to do this in this case, in the future, I’d bid the opening bid first, and then make my offer. I don’t think the seller can increase the bid at that point
If I were the buyer, I would conclude that you probably aren’t going to accept ANY offer, and that it makes no sense for me to make offers that you are then going to turn into opening bid amounts. So, at this point, I’d probably just sit back and wait to bid at the end of the auction. What you are doing is effectively creating a situation where the buyer is bidding against himself. As a buyer I wouldn’t be happy about that. But if I really wanted the item, it wouldn’t prevent me from bidding at the end of the auction.
Jay, Yeah, I like the day count too. I figure the warning will remain. Velocity is a big theme this year, so if they make any change to that, it would be to shorten it to 12 months or something.
Thanks T-Satt!
And, in breaking news LOL, this just in: (from eBay):
Update on Good ‘Til Cancelled
ghammat44Executive ghammat44
Executive
03-01-2019 03:26:16 PM
Hey eBay sellers, this is Harry, VP of Seller Experience at eBay. As you read in the 2019 Early Seller Update, we are moving all Fixed Price listings to Good ‘Til Cancelled (GTC). As a reminder, this change does not apply to auctions. We’re making this change because we have seen that GTC listings offer more sales opportunities than any other fixed price duration. Over time, GTC listings keep and grow watchers, sales history, and SEO authority as they maintain the same item ID and URL for the life of the listing. We believe all of the above improves the ability for buyers to discover items on eBay, which thereby improves the likelihood of a sale.We’re aware of concerns some of you may have around managing GTC listings. Today in the Seller Hub Active listings page, you can see the start date of each of your listings. You can also sort by the start date to see, for example, your oldest listing at the top. With the start date, you can determine how long a listing has been active – but, currently, this requires you to do some math. By the end of March, we’ll do the math for you and will show you the number of days each listing has been active. Today, sellers can also sort active listings by end date or time left. For GTC listings, end date indicates the next date of renewal, and time left indicates the time left until renewal. Just as you do today, you can start, end, or relist your items at any time you choose.
All sellers may also take advantage of the out-of-stock feature, which allows you to effectively pause the availability of the item to buyers by setting the listing quantity to zero. This comes in handy if you want to keep all the benefits mentioned above (same item ID and URL, watchers, sales history and SEO benefits) while either your item is out-of-stock or you need a vacation. When you are ready to sell the item again, simply update the quantity back to a positive number. You can also use our bulk editing tools to update multiple listings at once.
We’re also aware of concerns about the 30 day auto-renewal period not syncing with monthly billing cycles. We’re looking into this. Thank you for your patience.
We always want to create the best experience we possibly can for our sellers. That’s why your feedback is so important to us. We look forward to continuing our partnership with you to improve your sales velocity and build a better marketplace.
Jay, One reason Poshmark is free (IMO) is because , as a relatively new site, they’d get no traction if they were charging sellers upfront. I would not assume oshmark will stay free forever….as they grow, they might start charging…
I do agree with you that if ebay did go to free, they’d make up for the income some way. I also think a couple scenarios are worth considering: 1. ebay gates certain categories. If you can get through the gate, you get free listings, but no one else can list except those who get in the gate. That allows ebay to control junk listings and bad sellers in those categories 2. Sites like Poshmark are still relatively small. If eBay goes to free unlimited listings, search would be a nightmare…except, since no one is paying to list, ebay really could just say : we’ll show only the listings we want to, after all, you aren’t paying us to show your listing, so what have you got to complain about if your listing isn’t showing?
I have to say, I really wouldn’t want to see ebay go to completely free listings. ebay doesn’t vet its sellers (as some sites, such as Ruby Lane, do). Vetting provides an entry barrier (just like Amazon’s “gated” categories…more and more categories at Amazon are gated. How would ebay sellers react if ebay gated categories…free listings in those cats, but only IF you pass the vetting process. I don’t think it would go over very well. And by the way, I do think itcould eventually come to that) )
Look, someone wants to open a brick and mortar business, there are some serious costs and risks. Someone wants to set up in an antique mall? There’s a cost. Even a flea market. And consignment shops don’t sell your stuff for free, not even close. I shudder at an ebay with NO entry barrier.
If there’s no listing fee, ebay risks being over run with junk from people who have no real skin in the game. Years ago, ebay made most of its money from listing fees, not FVFs. Today, ebay makes most of it from FVFs. Years ago, the truth is, ebay pushed people to LIST with little concern whether stuff sold or not….as long as people kept listing, ebay kept making money. Which is why, back then, ebay never said: Know your numbers. Many sellers had no idea how little they were actually netting…they saw cash flow and they were happy….many sellers had no idea what “net profit” meant.
Today, eBay’s financial situation is MUCH better aligned with sellers….with most of its revenue coming from FVFs, ebay needs to help sellers SELL, not LIST. And that’s what ebay is trying to do.
Jay,
I wish I did have some definite insights about April. I can say this. ebay has said that there are three “themes” (or whatever they call them) for 2019: 1. Partnership. 2.Sales Velocity 3. Simple and Stable Platform
Under #1, I think we can expect changes to Seller Protection, probably around Returns and so forth. No matter what ebay does here, it probably won’t satisfy everyone, but I think there will be some benefit.
More speculative, I think we might see something around marketing, maybe better advance notice of when ebay will be running targeted ad campaigns, stuff like that (But that may just be wishful thinking.Under #2, I think we may see more and similar Seller Hub changes. For example, we will soon be able to change item price in Seller Hub. In April, if not before, I expect to see ebay “suggesting” trending prices there as well. (Like many changes, this will be more helpful for multi quantity listing sellers rather than those of us with one offs, due to the relative lack of data for our stuff.) All of this stuff is aimed at increasing Sales Velocity, which, frankly, is more important to the sellers of new stuff than to most of us—so I’m expecting most changes here to be good, but of limited usefulness to us. Which is better than detrimental to us LOL Still, I’d like to see coded coupons, and I think that might be in the offing as well.
Under #3, I think in April or mid year, ebay will make more changes to Managed Payments, including bringing PP back into the program. I also expect to see changes possibly in category structure/Item Specifics as ebay continues to try to get a handle of “structured data”.
But as always, we won’t know till they announce it. So we just wait and see.
Jay, About ending soonest. There are a lot of small sellers, especially of used stuff, who believe that many buyers use “ending soonest” rather than Best Match. I’m not one of them. I personally believe the vast majority of buyers use Best Match for the simple reason that it’s the default, and most people most everywhere use the default for most things. (Also, some years ago, ebay disclosed the percentage of searches conducted with Best Match, and, if I remember correctly , it was north of 90%. I doubt that has changed much).
Yes, I sometimes have items that sell as they are near the end of their 30 day period. I don’t think it’s because buyers are using Ending Soonest, I suspect it’s because the items are on watch lists and the buyers got a reminder from ebay saying “this is ending soon.”
But…as I say…there are some sellers who swear their sales will crumble if they can’t get seen in Ending Soonest’s first page. My post is simply to explain that GTC will show in Ending Soonest, so, for anyone who has been using 30 day rather than GTC because of “Ending Soonest”, well, don’t worry about it. NO difference there.
maybel9,
GTC are treated like 30 day FP listings when it comes to ending soonest. In other words , just as a 30 day FTP shows up in ending soonest as it comes to the end of its 30 days, so does a GTC. So, there’s really no change in Ending Soonest searches. (Well, I guess not exactly true….some sellers have been using shorter duration FP listings, such as ten day, so they appear more frequently in Ending Soonest….while those sellers will still be able to end their GTC listings on the 10th day, they won’t see any benefit in Ending Soonest, because the benefit comes as the listing approaches 30 days, and ending it 20 days too soon will likely eliminate the advantage)
Terri, That’s great about InkFrog….when the fuss started about the GTC cgange, I told the better half that I figured it wouldn’t take long for someone to come up with a widget or something to end GTCs early…and sure enough, InkFrog did…wonder if others, like Six Bit, will follow suit….
Jay, Yes, absolutely. They claim this release was done now, rather than April, because this stuff is ready to implement, so why wait? My guess is, it would be more accurate to say everything was to be released now, but they are behind schedule on everything else, so that stuff is going to have to wait till late April. We got lucky with this one. I expect fairly significant changes in April. Not necessarily bad changes, but significant changes. But as always, nothing to do but wait and see.
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