Home › Forums › Random Thoughts › Seller getting around Out of Stock defect
- This topic has 32 replies, 14 voices, and was last updated 7 years, 2 months ago by adnauseam.
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01/24/2017 at 9:30 am #11027
As a seller on eBay, to support the community I buy whenever possible from eBay. Had an interesting and annoying experience as a buyer yesterday. I purchased a set of wooden dominoes racks for $8 w/ free ship. A day after the purchase the seller messages that their system did not update and they are actually out of the item. Instead of canceling the order and refunding me, they said that they are sending me a small gift and will refund me after the “gift” is mailed, which they did. My thought is they have found a way around the Out of Stock defect. By mailing me something/anything, and then refunding me, it will appear to Ebay’s system that I was sent the item I purchased and then seller has taken care of me with a refund for some other reason than seller being out of stock, thus seller does not get a defect. I’m kind of annoyed by this. First, because I want bad sellers to get defects (clean out the bad sellers to improve the overall ebay experience for buyers = more repeat buyers to ebay = potentially more business for all of us sellers). Second, I don’t want some piece of junk that I didn’t ask for. Hopefully whatever it is will at least comes with a useful box or some packing material I can reuse.
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01/24/2017 at 9:46 am #11031
Talk about an egregious abuses of a sellers ability to skirt the system. I would open a case now. Don’t wait for the package to arrive. If fact it doesn’t have to in order to open a case. Chances are they will send you something that will cost very little to ship so a return will not necessary.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by eCommerce411.us.
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01/24/2017 at 10:41 am #11041
Unfortunately because seller already shipped something and issued a refund, I can not open a case. I can only leave negative feedback.
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01/24/2017 at 11:06 am #11044
Sorry. I misunderstood. Didn’t pickup that a refund was issued. You can take comfort in that fact any transaction cancelled due to sellers action (inaction) is a mark against the seller in EB matrices. I confirm this the other day EB when I cancelled an order because the address I was shipping to had too many charge backs and lost orders. I decided to take the hit rather than lose the product and $$
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01/24/2017 at 11:13 am #11045
That’s my point, because they shipped “something” and then refunded, they will not get a hit/defect with ebay. If a seller refunds a customer after something is shipped, then it looks to ebay’s system like the seller was taking care of their customer and thus they don’t get a defect. When, actually, they do deserve a defect because they did not have what I ordered.
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01/24/2017 at 10:51 pm #11095
ecommerce411.us,
How could you tell/look-up the customer/address had many charge backs and lost orders?
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01/25/2017 at 12:30 am #11096
Just use of advance internet search. Takes a bit of time. If there is anything to be found, it’s not detailed information. Just suspicious or questionable. Enough to give you a “gut” feeling.
I only attempt in on higher ticket items my margins are slim. In this particular case, neither of these were necessarily true, but what caught my eye was the buyer’s email address domain was registered in the country of Georgia. A country I don’t ship to. Long story short, variations of the address started showing up on some dark sites. That was enough for me even though EB said they may just may be exporter. Yeah, maybe so, but an exporter with a questionable history.
Funny thing about this. The package was ready to be shipped and + feedback already given, before I msg’s the buyer and cancelled the order. Thinking nothing more to come of it. Two days ago I received a + feedback… go figure.
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01/24/2017 at 11:35 am #11048
It is possible for a sellers item to have the incorrect stock. It is also possible they sold the item through another channel and their inventory count got off. It has happened to multiple people here in this group. The seller took care of it, refunded you, and took the expense of sending you something for your trouble.
If they are using this to get around getting a defect, so be it. They are taking care of their customer. -
01/24/2017 at 11:35 am #11049
They did get mark against them. Refunding was a result of a cancellation on their part, not yours. Regardless if an item was shipped or not. Also to note, in this particular case, the item had free shipping. Which nulls the point, since EB automatically gives a seller 5 stars for free shipping when the transaction occurs. It is unknown if this is retracted when a transaction is cancelled.
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01/24/2017 at 1:19 pm #11058
I should note that they sent the refund through Paypal, so Ebay would not know that a cancellation on seller’s part was the reason for the refund. They shipped a “gift” to make it appear to ebay that the sale was not cancelled and that a refund was sent for another reason.
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01/24/2017 at 6:03 pm #11066
Though I agree that Retro WV Treasures that the seller did make it right by giving you an immediate refund, there’s a reason why eBay and Amazon punish sellers who cant keep track of their inventory.
You can call eBay and complain. They will read the seller’s messages admitting they ran out of merchandise and sent you a nonsense product.
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01/24/2017 at 6:28 pm #11071
ecommerce411:
I don’t think the seller got a defect here. If I understand correctly, seller advised buyer that seller was out of stock (if they did this through something other than ebay messages, ebay won’t evn have a record of that). Seller offers to ship a gift (which, as far as ebay knows, is the item itself). Buyer receives item, ebay views that as a shipped and delivered transaction. Seller then issues a refund through PayPal, NOT as a refund of the transaction, but as a direct PayPal payment to buyer (so that nothing in the payPal transaction indicates that anything other then the correct item was shipped and delivered, and there’s no indication that a refund was made.
As others have noted, the seller has made the buyer whole (refunded the amount) and even sent a gift (which may or may not be appreciated by the buyer). Most buyers are not as savvy as JulieB, who is also a seller and so understands the seller’s dual motives: to make the buyer whole, and to avoid the out of stock demerit from ebay.
I do understand the desire to report the seller to ebay, but I also understand that stuff happens, the seller made it good, and personally, I’d let it go. But that’s up to JulieB, she can try contacting ebay…
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01/24/2017 at 6:48 pm #11075
eBay and PayPal accounts are still linked.
If a seller refunds a buyer through PayPal from the transaction created from the sale, PP notifies EB of the refund. This will show up in the seller’s EB dashboard Resolution Center as a cancelled transaction, refund issued.
Similarly, if a buyer opens up a case against a seller, EB notifies PP the funds are put on hold until the case is resolved.
The only way a seller could skirt this issue is if they issued a refund through PP directly to the buyer by using the buyers email address (sending money to someone option). This does not seem to be the case, because the buyer can’t open a case against the seller because the transaction has been closed and refund made.
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01/24/2017 at 6:32 pm #11072
Oh, and the Free Shipping is immaterial. This isn’t about DSRs. It’s about ebay’s rather strict standards for out of stock situations. It doesn’t take many such situations to effect a small seller’s standard.
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01/24/2017 at 8:03 pm #11079
ecommerce,
But that’s my point…it sounds like the Seller did not, strictly speaking, issue a refund from the PayPal transaction. He used the sending money option to send the amount of the refund. Also, since the seller sent AN item, and the transaction shows delivered, even if he issued a refund, it would not be linked to a cancel, since neither the seller nor the buyer actually cancelled…the seller presumably sent the gift item as if were the item itself. -
01/24/2017 at 8:38 pm #11083
We’re beating a dead horse here, but just to clarification of how the process works… Seller shipped a “gift” to buyer, buyer HAS NOT RECEIVED IT YET, Seller issued refund, buyer can’t open case because refund has been issued… translation, case close because refund was tied to transaction.
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01/24/2017 at 8:45 pm #11085
OK, I see your point….refund was issued BEFORE evidence of delivery.
It IS possible that the seller is NOT trying to dodge the cancel defect, and has sent the gift ONLY as a good will gesture for the buyer….
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01/25/2017 at 1:06 am #11098
If you don’t want the gift, simply write “rejected” on it and leave it for your postal delivery person. If you don’t open it, it will be returned free of charge. Annoying gift problem solved.
And now we know how to skirt the system. lol Interesting topic.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Alex.
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01/25/2017 at 4:49 pm #11161
I would let it go and not try to get them in trouble. Partly because it has happened to us that a couple things sold on Bonanza (Bonanza never notified us), and also sold on ebay a little while later. I had to cancel the ebay transactions. Also, once we broke a vintage casserole dish while packing it, so had to cancel that one too. Just a bit of bad luck can give you enough defects to lose your TRS status especially if you haven’t been selling long.
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01/25/2017 at 5:27 pm #11164
The handful of times we’ve had to cancel a sale, we just apologized, refunded, and ate the defect. No big deal because it’s rare.
Having a clever system that gets around the defect rating leads me to think this seller runs out of inventory often.
- This reply was modified 7 years, 3 months ago by Jay.
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01/25/2017 at 11:43 pm #11186
Agree with pythonesk. Lower volume sellers can lose their TRS status with just three or four issues. A misplaced piece of inventory or two, play your hand wrong by contesting a refund. Bam! You’re in eBay purgatory! Quite frankly, I would HELP a seller avoid the defect as long as I get a quick refund and an apology.
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01/26/2017 at 4:56 am #11194
I’ve never had to cancel a transaction, thank goodness, but tonight I thought I might, because I couldn’t find something I sold. As I was frantically searching for it, I was thinking if I didn’t find it, I might send something as a good will gesture because I felt SO bad about it.
Fortunately I didn’t have to cancel, but I almost did the same thing (sending a consolation gift), though I probably wouldn’t have uploaded the tracking # or used ebay’s shipping discount. I think it’d be obvious at that point that they were being sneaky and dishonest.
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01/26/2017 at 7:24 am #11195
Although it may seem like a good gesture to send something sight unseen and unsolicited, put yourself in the buyer’s shoes. How would you feel about having something sent that you didn’t ask for…regardless if it was free? You as a seller don’t know what the buyer’s intent on using the product they originally ordered. Sending something unsolicited just ads to the frustration to an already poor buyer’s experience.
If you want to offer something, offer something intangible. When something arrives damage that I can’t exchange or when I can’t find the item in question, or my worse…selling an item that I already sold, I offer that I will work with them on offering a significant discount on anything that I have for sale. This is generally an open offer for 3-6 months.
What this does is mitigate the current situation and brings the buyer back to shop at your store in the future.
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01/26/2017 at 7:51 am #11196
As I get older, the most valuable thing to me is my time. This seller is wasting others time and no matter what they do they cannot make the buyer whole. The time commitment to this item is gone forever. The seller deserves a ding of some sort and if they lose “TRS” status so be it.
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01/26/2017 at 8:29 am #11200
Another time we had to cancel a Born leather sandal order was because the shoes were moldy. They were fine but the footbed was dirty when we got them. I washed them really well and they were looking practically new again. I was kinda proud of myself. But… I put them away before they were completely dry and they molded. Argh! That was a rookie mistake for sure and it cost us our TRS status for a while. But I do agree with Jay that if this seller has figured out a way around the system then he has probably done this far too often.
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01/26/2017 at 8:55 am #11202
I’m so on board with Incompetent Picker’s POV. As a thorough and careful shopper, by the time I click the Buy-it-Now button, I’ve generally spent a lot of time researching the purchase and am feeling good that I can check that task off my list.
While I’m not cold-hearted, judging by the gaming of the system, this isn’t this seller’s first rodeo. Not only does he disappoint buyers, his workaround displays dishonesty. I’d report him to Ebay without a second thought.
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01/26/2017 at 9:32 am #11207
A couple thoughts: Yes, his workaround—if that’s what it is—COULD indicate a pattern. BUT maybe not. When eBay first announced the out of stock rule, the ebay boards were filled with posts from people saying things like :” Well, there’s an easy way around this…” So, it’s not as if there’s no advice out there on how to dodge the out of stock defect. Even someone out of stock for the first time could find out how to try to dodge it.
I do agree with ecommerce about a discount rather than a gift. The refund made the buyer whole financially, but it is no comfort to the buyer who spent time finding the item and really wants it (especially for the sort of unusual stuff many of us sell). I think I would use Promotions Manager to issue a coupon code for my store, good for “x” and for a certain duration (especially if I had related items in the store, which might be of interest to the buyer). But of course, doing that would not require shipping something, and that’s the nub of the issue here, isn’t it? Is the seller’s sole motive in shipping a gift, an effort to make up for the buyer’s inconvenience, or is it an effort to dodge the defect?
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01/26/2017 at 11:01 am #11217
This maneuver that the OP describes would be perfect if you were a drop shipper or someone doing retail arbitrage without actually purchasing the items before listing them.
It may catch up with them eventually, or not.
Thanks for posting this scenario.
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01/26/2017 at 12:31 pm #11220
That was i’m thinking. Some guy found an item on Amazon for $5. He lists it on eBay for $6. He probably makes 50-cents when he sells it, but he doesn’t have to handle the inventory. Just clicking.
But if the Amazon buyer can’t fulfill the order, he has to cancel the eBay sale. This is a big reason why eBay has a Defect System. To punish the sellers who consistently do not hold up their end of the sale.
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01/26/2017 at 3:37 pm #11233
For those of you anxiously awaiting what the “apology gift” is, I received it today. My original order was for a specific type of wooden domino rack so I was expecting something maybe domino or gaming related. I received……a Glad air freshener that was drop shipped from Wal-Mart. The invoice and return label are from walmart with my name on the invoice. I was racking my brain as to why I was receiving a $2 air freshener from Walmart via Fed Ex. I started to suspect the pet sitter who was at my house last week, was dropping a subtle hint (to be fair, I have 4 indoor pets including an elderly dog with a temperamental bladder so the house probably does smell a bit pet-friendly.) I finally remembered the “apology gift”! I checked the tracking number against ebay and sure enough, the air freshener is from the seller via walmart drop shipping. I assume that he must be selling many items on ebay that are drop shipped from Walmart and that is why he was not able to keep up with the actual inventory of items he lists. Mystery solved. I can say this has been the most peculiar ebay purchase I’ve ever made.
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01/26/2017 at 3:46 pm #11237
That’s too funny! Yeah, definitely a drop shipper. Well, if the item you wanted to buy from him is drop-shippable then that means you might be able to find it cheaper from another online retailer. It wasn’t a one-of-a-kind vintage item was it? If new, then others are probably selling it.
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01/26/2017 at 4:31 pm #11243
My gosh, this sounds like a lot of work to drop ship! It was an $8 item. That is not a good business model at all. He’s out the $2 gift and his ebay fees.
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02/06/2017 at 1:31 pm #11879
@julie B- I’m sure you want a more unusual type, however, if you are looking for the 70s wooden racks let me see if I still have the 3 I think I do. You’re a “neighbor” and a fellow trash elf so you can just have them and since we’re both in GA it won’t cost me hardly anything to send them. PM me if you want them! (and if I can find them, that is) 🙂
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