Home › Forums › Buying and Selling › Selling on eBay › What to do with rare signed presidential historical documents?
Tagged: documents, ephemera, history, presidents., signatures
- This topic has 17 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 3 months ago by
Lukastreasure.
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06/01/2019 at 10:13 am #62770
Hoping I can learn from someone else’s experience on how to go about selling some historical documents. Yesterday, I bought a small trunk filled with ephemera because there was a passport for a John Black from 1823 that appeared to be signed by John Quincy Adams. They only asked $35 for the trunk so I grabbed it and left before doing any research. Upon getting it home I verify that it is real, and looking through the trunk further find a vellum document that is signed by both James Buchanan and James Polk. Also, included are letters to and from Black. Black was the US Consul to Mexico City just prior to, and during, the Mexican-American War.
I’ve already sent a query to Heritage Auctions, as they seem to have specialists of historic documents, but wanted to get thoughts on selling via eBay or anything helpful. I’ve done some basic searches for value and I think I may be looking at something worth several thousands of dollars. Definitely, outside my comfort zone here.
Thanks in advance.
Mike
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06/01/2019 at 12:43 pm #62774
–Are those original documents?
–Where did you buy this box? An estate sale? Make sure you start documenting as much info as possible so you can trace provenance.We’ve never found documents so cool. We’re going to be learning from you as you get more info.
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06/01/2019 at 1:10 pm #62777
@Jay, Yes, we found them at an estate sale and yes, they are originals. Thanks for the tip about provenance. Easily overlooked. I’m going back by the estate sale today to make sure there is nothing else I should have grabbed. Lots of old books that I now want to take a second look at. I’ll see what additional information I can gather.
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06/01/2019 at 1:26 pm #62778
Others here will likely give more informed advice about selling historical documents, but I would definitely ask the estate sale who’s house it is and if they have any info where stuff came from.
And that box could have been a unique box in the estate that was overlooked, or there could be more lying around.
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06/01/2019 at 3:23 pm #62784
Super-exciting!
I’m sure you found this page, which says that passports signed by JQAdams are super-rare.
https://www.raabcollection.com/john-q-adams-autograph/john-q-adams-signed-sold-very-scarce-diplomatic-passport-signed-john-quincy-
06/01/2019 at 4:31 pm #62786
Kate, do you know how you authenticate/sell historical papers. Is it through the auction houses like art?
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06/01/2019 at 4:59 pm #62789
@Hausfrau, Yes, I did come across it. Made my heart skip a beat. Actually called Raab, but they were less than forthcoming and wouldn’t give much information over the phone. They told us they usually buy object outright, then resell them, rather than putting them up for auction and splitting the proceeds.
Thanks for the link.
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06/01/2019 at 6:09 pm #62793
I know nothing, but just wanted to say How Freakin’ Cool!!!!!
Good luck with your cache!
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06/01/2019 at 7:09 pm #62798
Something like that you would REALLY be better off having it authenticated before selling, if you didn’t the buyer will always use that against you and try to drop the price… Killer finds!
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08/07/2019 at 11:44 am #66005
Just thought I’d post an update on the historical documents I found. I sent them off this past Friday to Skinner Auctions to be included in an Early American auction they have scheduled for the fall. Their estimates were lower than I expected, $3000 – $5000 for all, but you can never be sure with auctions. I felt that I might get a bit more for it using Skinner’s connections to the collecting community. They take a 30% cut for their service.
I found a few other interesting objects in the trunk after my initial posting here. I found a check in the truck dated 1794 signed by George Washington. I got REAL excited by that one and got an initial estimate of $5000 – $6000. Unfortunately, that one turned out to be a forgery. 🙁 Still interesting, though, as it was done by a notorious forger named Robert Spring in the 1860’s. Should still be worth a few hundred due to his status as one of America’s first great forgers.
Another cool check in the box was a check for $60,000 dated 1807, written to a John and Robert Oliver. They were wealthy merchants in Baltimore. There is even a book written about Robert named “Merchant of Baltimore”. That $60K check would be $1,380,000 in today’s dollars.
Here is the Washington check. I currently have it listed on eBay for $997.95 or best offer.
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This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by
Lukastreasure.
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08/07/2019 at 11:46 am #66007
Cool. That exploration is super fun. Plus you may make a lot of money!
How are you getting all these items assessed and authenticated? Are you paying someone or just letting the auction’s experts figure it out?
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This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by
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08/07/2019 at 12:17 pm #66009
Hi Jay,
I have a high confidence in the authenticity of the John Black documents as they came with letters to and from John Black and the ancestor of the most previous owner. I included these with the items to support the provenance. Skinner is a very reputable auction house and they will do a bit of due diligence as well before risking their reputation.
They wouldn’t even take the Washington check because they didn’t want their house associated with a forgery.
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08/07/2019 at 2:12 pm #66016
Good to know. Let us know how the auction goes. If it sells for $6k, and Skinner takes 30%, you’ll make $4200. Not bad!
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08/07/2019 at 1:12 pm #66015
Those are amazing finds! Thank you for keeping us updated!
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02/21/2020 at 2:12 pm #74211
For the sake of anyone who might fall into the same situation, I thought I should share the ultimate outcome of the auction. To cut to the end, the final sale prices didn’t quite meet my expectations and I’d probably guide others to stick with eBay and take the risk of selling direct. I sold 4 items from the box at the auction for a selling price of $2925. Skinner took 30%, so I ended up with roughly $2000.
I allowed my fear of being somehow swindled by a buyer on eBay lead me to reduce the risk and reward by working with an auction house. I convinced myself that selling with a reputable auction house would possibly get me more because they have a direct line on the “real” collectors. So, a little greed was at play as well. The reality, as we’ve learned from eBay auctions, is that if the buyers aren’t there that day, then your item won’t get top dollar.
Now, for some perspective, I did only pay $35, so I can’t complain too much, but I will certainly do differently if I’m ever so fortunate again. I also sold the George Washington forgery this week on eBay for $974.95. So, it didn’t make me rich, but I’m doing OK and I learned some valuable lessons.
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02/21/2020 at 2:24 pm #74213
Wow, so you’re up $3k on a $35 buy. That’s one of those jackpots.
We’ve had similar experiences selling at auctions thinking they would have the buyers to pay top dollar. It was also disappointing.
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02/21/2020 at 2:43 pm #74215
How did I miss this thread originally?! $35 for a trunk of rare historical documents? Wow! That is an incredible find.
I’ve long heard that the Washington DC area is one of the best areas in the country for books & ephemera. I thought the competition was pretty stiff, but I guess a lot of the old-timers are starting to retire and it’s a matter of who’s at what sale when.
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02/21/2020 at 3:48 pm #74216
@almasty – Yes, the estate sales around here can be pretty good for ephemera. But time consuming to dig through. I’ll have a hard time passing up a junky old trunk again after this. These were buried under stacks of roach eaten newspapers, which is probably why everyone else passed them up.
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