Home › Forums › Identification: What is this thing? › Artwork Help
- This topic has 18 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 8 years, 7 months ago by
Habnab.
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11/25/2017 at 3:04 pm #26964
Okay, I hope I linked the photos correctly. In researching this item, I have seen them listed as a painting, lithograph and serigraph. I cannot feel any raised images (everything seems flat against the canvas). Everything I have seen is in a frame, so no one is discussing the numbers/words on the back of the item. One says “Grasse” one says “#7Rose Ash” and the last says “02-1019-2” I am wondering if the wording with ash is the wood framing it is stapled to. Do I list this as a lithograph? I have never sold artwork before, so any help would be appreciated. -
11/25/2017 at 3:07 pm #26965
Okay, the first pictures didn’t work…let’s try this…
https://imgur.com/a/bgGdT
https://imgur.com/a/1VXyS -
11/25/2017 at 3:17 pm #26966
Okay, that worked, but upside down! Ugh! So, any help on this would be appreciated!
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11/25/2017 at 3:27 pm #26968
Its pretty. That’s about all I have to offer. Sorry 🙁
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11/25/2017 at 3:32 pm #26970
Thanks, Karen. I picked it up today at a garage sale for $5. I thought the “train” as well as the “Illinois” subject would appeal to a number of different buyers. Prices are all over the board on eBay and Etsy (I only sell on eBay) so I am hoping to find out how to properly list it. Unframed will be lighter to ship, too,
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11/25/2017 at 5:14 pm #26975
Check to see if you have Windows Photo Viewer on your computer. If so, open the picture and then look toward the bottom for the rotation arrow. Rotate the picture, save it again, and then upload it again.
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11/25/2017 at 5:25 pm #26976
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11/25/2017 at 5:50 pm #26979
This link may be of benefit.
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&biw=1524&bih=714&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=AfMZWu-eO6eQ0gLbtLHgBw&q=train+church+picture+painting+with+snow&oq=train+church+picture+painting+with+snow&gs_l=psy-ab.3…94985.96624.0.97548.7.7.0.0.0.0.84.534.7.7.0….0…1c.1.64.psy-ab..0.0.0….0.BHHEyqQgXgs#imgrc=ayz-36Xk1lXnQM:
make sure to scroll down. It’s on the right side.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by
AdventureE.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by
AdventureE.
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This reply was modified 8 years, 7 months ago by
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11/25/2017 at 6:29 pm #26983
Losing it again: Without seeing this personally and under a loupe I am pretty sure what you have is a Giclee [pronounced Zhee-clay]. I can tell you it is definietly not a Serigraph [silk screen], etching, stone lithograph or an original hand painted by the artist acrylic or oil painting. Think about it. If it is an “original” one of a kind hand painted then why is there one already on Ebay and you have one also!!! There are TWO of then and probably many, many more.
It was originally in a medium like acrylic, opque water color, or guasch [a tempera like paint. Then it was put on either a drum scanner or photographed commercially then digitized. This day and time, it may even be a direct digital piece of art done with Coral Draw or something similiar and saved as a digital file.
This file is then given to a commercial printer [like I used to be] and the file is then “ripped” and fed to a large wide format ink jet printer. We had Epson’s and Roland printers. We could do up to 60″ wide on board, canvass, water color paper, glossy photo paper and other suitably coated substrates in high quality chromatic inks. High rez drum scans acn pick up the slightest detail even down to the bristle hairline ridges in the paint on the original surface. Then this image is printed out usually on canvass. These are then stretched over wooden stretcher bars and stabled on the sides or back. This is the type of art you see in every dept. store in the world, Target, Macy’s, World Market, Marshall’s, TJ Max, etc., etc.
These Giclees produce such fine lines that as this article briefly touches on, that only an expert or very trained eye under extreme maginification can tell the difference. That is why I carry a 100 power, lighted loupe-mini microscope in my pouch with me to all estate sales and auction. I know when I have the real thing, either painting or print. Been in art since 1968.
That being the case, you probably have a digital ink jet print of an original done in another medium. The cost to produce high end reproductions has come down dramatically. We used to do them at $5 per square foot, they are now down to less than a dollar a square foot. If that piece is 24×30 = approx. 5 square feet it was printed for approx. $5 by an overseas [China printer] and shipped state side rolled. They produce repro’s in 60″ wide x 100 foot rolls leaving about 3 to 6 inch borders all around and shipped rolled up in a tube. That way the American framers or stores who buy them just cut them out, put together a 4 pc. wood stretcher bar frame and staples them. This is usually done by a USA wholesaler, who then sells them to the US market, pre-stretched.
Next time you are in a dept. store with bins of repro’s look at all the edges as you flip through them. You will see how even,straight and precise the end of the image is. Even if it is gallery wrapped around to the back.
The stretcher bars can be had for approx. $.03 to .05 per running inch wholesale. So about $5.40 for the 24×30 + the printed canvas wholesale for about $10 bucks and the dept. stores mark them up and I have seen them at $50 up to $250 +/-. And they capture the signatures when they are scanned and it just gets printed along with the whole image.I could be wrong and I would have to see and feel your piece and use my strong magnifiers but I would bet dollars to donuts you have a digital reproduction. Even if you see brush strokes in it.
Hate to be a downer, but I have a pretty strong background in this arena.
Mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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11/25/2017 at 7:06 pm #26986
Oh BTW: I forgot to include this link to a short article on the Digital Prints.
http://www.ebay.com/gds/Hand-Painted-or-Giclee-Oil-Painting-/10000000000089004/g.html
There is a huge problem of Sellers misidentifying art on Ebay and selling pieces that are nothing more than prints as original oil paintings. It has been known for years, if not decades and Ebay has just never addressed it. The example of the exact print you have that was listed with the link by Adventure E takes you to a listing stating he has or had an “original oil painting”. Funny that there are two of them and every detail is exact. See, what I mean.
The primary art market is way out of the average persons reach. The secondary market is just flooded by sellers and buyers alike that just are not knowledgeable enough to understand what to buy and how to buy. Art on Ebay is also way under priced due to this knowledge gap and inability to correctly identify originals from repo’s and the real techniques used to produce them.
mike at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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11/25/2017 at 7:28 pm #26991
MDC,
I was wondering if you could share some tell tale signs as to whether to even bother bringing a piece home if found while sourcing. I am not so much interested in the in depth understanding needed for the high priced/rare, highly sought after pieces, but instead distinguishing between pieces that may be just junk and pieces that may actually have some sellable value.
On another note, I was wondering if you could share if digital prints still have value as long as it is stated that it is such.
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11/25/2017 at 8:43 pm #26997
Sure.. there are a few quick items to be aware of. Fisrt is to always have a loupe or linen tester in your pocket or around your neck. But around your neck you will look like a jewlers. But the loupe is also good for that. At 10x power just lay it down on any artwork and look to see if it is printed with “dots”. Usually CMYK [cyan, magenta, yellow & black]. If so then you at least know it is a reproduction that is usually an “offset Lithograph” print. Not to be confused with a “stone, hand drawn lithograph”.
Next if you think you have a painting, look across the surface and catch some reflective light. If you can see the actual brush strokes that follow the contours of the object it is probably a hand done original. But be careful of brush strokes that have been hand applied with a clear gloss or matt as an overcoat. Those brush strokes will not follow the detailing outline of the objects.
Next look at the back. If it is paper sealed that is usually a print. If raw canvass on wood stretchers a painting. Note if the canvas is brown colored which means it is linen rather than white canvas which is some type of cotton duck. Linen is the more expensive of them.
Note if a painting is stapled or tacked with carpet tacks. Staples are a newer more modern process. Tacks will indicate older.
So brown canvas, tacked, old looking back stains, aged wood frames, any hardawre that is more primitive means the painting is maybe a higher valued piece. But then would come subject matter, style and then of course the artist.
The more valuable prints are penciled signed by the artist, better still if they are pencil numbered, titled and of course dated. Be wary of printed signatures, then pencil signed also. The more that is done in pencil the better. The American Printers and Framwers Institute advocates nubered prints in editions of less than 250 and better still 125. Higher numbers means like 10,000 means high speed mass produced, flooded market, limited only to anyone and everyone that wants one.
If prints are loose, the higher value is having a full 4 sided deckle edge to the paper, or having a watermarked paper which can be seen by holding up to the light. Less value are prints that have straight edges that were cut on a commercial paper cutter guillotine or at the mill.
Then paper type and printing type is a course in itself.
This should give you some idea of what to start with. Most prints I buy is so I can get the frame. Even popular names like Thomas Kinade are really not worth much as far as fine art goes. It is more of a pseudo fake market created by sellers just like the “Beanie Babies” secondary market.
Then comes the whole discussion if Ebay online e-commerce is actually the place to sell or at least get top / higher dollar for the artwork. Ask Jay and Ryanne how they feel now that a year or so has gone by about selling all that art they got from their artist friend and collector. Would they do it again, how do they feel about the prices on the ones they did sell. How many pieces have sold out of that whole load that they got out in Cal.???
So, hopefully you are armed with a little something now to start to weed out what you find out in the field.
Mike, Susan and Lisa, the management team at MDC Galleries and Fine Art in Atlanta
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11/25/2017 at 9:05 pm #27001
Thank you for such a detailed response. You make it sound so easy which we know it’s not.
You have provided us with a good start.
Thank you.
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11/27/2017 at 2:58 pm #27184
Even though we don’t have the knowledge and experience of MDDC. There are several things we can look for. How does the frame etc. look and feel? Does it seem to be right for the era of the painting? Is the painting surrounded by other objects that “fit” with it. Ask about it from the current owner? Where did it come from how long have they had it etc.? What can they tell you about it?
Obviously, this would work best at an estate sale and would be ineffective at a thrift store.
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11/25/2017 at 8:04 pm #26992
MDC, thank you for such a thorough explanation. I need you to become my best friend and let me tag along with you and your 100 power, lighted loupe-mini microscope the next time I am in Atlanta. You could teach a bunch of us scavengers on art. It is so hard to decipher, as AdventureE says when we are out and about trying to find something that has some sellable value. I thought the train subject would allow me to at least get my $5 investment back. Even looking at it at the garage sale, I could tell that it was not a painting. I think I saw that there were “several” online (including on eBay) and prices were all over the board. I have another piece of artwork up that I called a Giclee from some of the online information I found on it (it is called Wedding Memories, Memorias De Boda by Consuelo Gamboa). I guess I will put it up for around 29.99 and see what happens. Thanks so much for the advice!
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11/25/2017 at 8:53 pm #26999
Oh you should more than get your money back Most of these types of prints are targeted at the Home decor market. To those and most buyers these are “pictures” not art prints. They are bought to decorate. And if there are train collectors out there, depending on the type train / engine buyers for the subject matter. Most prints should easily go for the $40 to $50 range and then up just like they do in those stores I mentioned. It is the subject that is selling, not the printing process in most of these cases.
mc at mdcg
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11/25/2017 at 8:25 pm #26994
MDC, can you call a Giclee a print or is that inaccurate?
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11/25/2017 at 8:49 pm #26998
Sure.. A Giclee is a print. It is an art print. It advantages is that it is a print on demand process so an artist does not have to pay for a whole edition run at one time like the editions we used to do for the artists that came to me to do their edition work for them.
If the correct material / substrate is used and the best archival inks then a digital print / Giclee is just as viable a printing medium as other older techniques. Most quality inks are now mfg. to last over a hundred years along with the acid free, neutral PH materials they are printed on. Many museum now prefer Giclees again because of cost and print on demand. Galleries who represent artists can print one or two to keep in stock and when one sells they just replace it. BTW, the digital process is very accurate on duplicating each image exactly even if printed, days, weeks or months later. Unless equipment or inks have been changed by the print house.
mc at MDCG
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11/27/2017 at 3:55 pm #27193
So, this is the website for the artist/company, as far as I can tell.
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